MARCH — The Last Ninja 2012

Game of universal domination. New dice available free upon request.
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Rhye
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Post by Rhye » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:23 pm

PJB wrote:
gfips wrote:WOHOO George got his second wildcard :-)
Where is my first wildcard?
mentor09 wrote:Since dolla and Mumps both did not claim the win - George874 is back in the game...
can you explain why? I didn't loose the first round why can i not go back into the tournament?

and

Why didn't you let all the players that didn't have an opponent in the first round play against each other?
I agree with those who mock this rebirth system because, quite frankly, it deserves a little bit of mocking. Firstly, you gave out a ton of byes that were unnecassary, giving a minority group fewer games to play than the others (which is a giant advantage in shogun, where you are largely at the mercy of the dice.) But what is even more outrageous than that is the whole rebirth system. We all worked very hard to get into the final 8..... and now someone who has been eliminated from the tournament not once, but twice is being randomly inserted back into the game! I understand that it's random, and it certainly wasn't intended to revive a player twice, but why should we be rewarding players for dying at all? That's like giving treats to a dog when he pees on your shoes. George, I have nothing against you personally, but if you win this tournament, I'll be pissed.

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Post by Big Will E Style » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:11 am

I agree 100% with Rhye...once I shrugged it off...twice is silly. George is a good guy but nobody deserves 3 shots at this tournament lol!

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Post by jesterme » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:25 am

reviverme?

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Post by mentor09 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:26 am

Rhye wrote:
PJB wrote:
gfips wrote:WOHOO George got his second wildcard :-)
Where is my first wildcard?
mentor09 wrote:Since dolla and Mumps both did not claim the win - George874 is back in the game...
can you explain why? I didn't loose the first round why can i not go back into the tournament?

and

Why didn't you let all the players that didn't have an opponent in the first round play against each other?
I agree with those who mock this rebirth system because, quite frankly, it deserves a little bit of mocking. Firstly, you gave out a ton of byes that were unnecassary, giving a minority group fewer games to play than the others (which is a giant advantage in shogun, where you are largely at the mercy of the dice.) But what is even more outrageous than that is the whole rebirth system. We all worked very hard to get into the final 8..... and now someone who has been eliminated from the tournament not once, but twice is being randomly inserted back into the game! I understand that it's random, and it certainly wasn't intended to revive a player twice, but why should we be rewarding players for dying at all? That's like giving treats to a dog when he pees on your shoes. George, I have nothing against you personally, but if you win this tournament, I'll be pissed.

No need to be pissed - i exactly explained why it is like this. I added a rule to the system (You all should have noticed):
mentor09 wrote:If both players do not claim a win, the rules say they both get eliminated from the tournament. In addition, i will fill up these free seats with losers of the last rounds (in order of playing the tournament games) - so play your games early, it might help to survive - even if you are already dead...
The major aspect of that rule is that players should be encouraged to play their games early. I hate it to call up players friday in a room, asking them "Did you contact xy?" "Not yet." Its up to you players to organize the game.

Final games of the 3rd round were:

Game (#1324792) finished (Mazza-George874 2-0)
Game (#1325041) finished (SMB-GFips 2-1)
Game (#1325094) finished (Shock-Samuel99 1-2)
Game (#1325108) finished (Lantern-Schroberts 2-0)
Game (#1325983) finished (Big WIll E Style-mentor09 2-0)
Game (#1326436) finished (Meron-Rhye 0-2)
Game (#1327046) finished (crazygreens-n00less cluebie 2-1)

Since George finished first, he has a right to get the rebirth. We can discuss this rule for sure. I will add the result in next years rules. We can even change it _now_ but it must not affect the decision i took. Either way, if George thinks GFips should get the chance (which would be better IMO), it's ok as well. George what do you think about it?

@Rhye: The Byes were not unnneccessary, having them in an early state is better than in the end, right? I set up 64 seats and 45 Players. So 19 Players get a Bye in round #1 (while 22 Games happened). In round #2 there should have been 32 Players left. The ugly thing is that a lot of players registered but did not care about their games. You all should remember that I even caught up a lot of players and asked them about their coordination efforts. Unbelievable to me they did not write a pm at all, or did not even realize that their opponents were online the same time.

In round number two the same thing rehappened - Byes of round number 1 fell asleep and did not contact their opponents. So I added the rule to give those Players a second chance which cared about their games early. This made things moving in round #3. 16 Games, 15 were played - I think the rule was a win for the tournament.

Once I specfied it, i have to follow that rule. Next year I will modify it like "if you did not get that chance in a previuos round", since we all agree (I think so) it would be better.

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Post by jesterme » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:46 am

Why not just limit registration to people who have in the past shown they actually give a rats ass and will actually play their games. Let a few new players in each year and if they do not play, they are not invited next year.

A 32 player invitational tourney would certainly be better than a 64 player with 1/3 of them AFK tourney. What is special about a tourney with 33% of the players not bothering to show up? Make it an exclusive 16 or 32 player invitational tourney where missing your game means no invite next year...people might be beating down the doors to get in...or setting up play ingames to qualify for a place if not invited. And, no more bitching about rebirths...

My 1/2 cent.

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Post by mentor09 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:50 am

jesterme wrote:Why not just limit registration to people who have in the past shown they actually give a rats ass and will actually play their games. Let a few new players in each year and if they do not play, they are not invited next year.

A 32 player invitational tourney would certainly be better than a 64 player with 1/3 of them AFK tourney. What is special about a tourney with 33% of the players not bothering to show up? Make it an exclusive 16 or 32 player invitational tourney where missing your game means no invite next year...people might be beating down the doors to get in...or setting up play ingames to qualify for a place if not invited. And, no more bitching about rebirths...

My 1/2 cent.
Dolla and Mumps showed up regularily - I did not expect them not to play. Mumps was unable to show up for the claim (He was at school). Nah failed games can always happen for certain circumstances... I guess most people do not complain about the rebirth thing (they all want to play, not to get a bye) - just about the _second_ rebirth.

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Post by jesterme » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:02 am

I was not trying to complain. It is your tourney and I have enjoyed it for 2 years now. Thanks for hosting it again!

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Post by Mumps » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:39 am

Great tourney mentor :D
Unfortunately mine seems to have prematurely ended but oh well
I have no qualms with the seat being filled by a loser from the previous round, good work to them getting their games in early i guess
Good Luck George :)
:smt065

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Post by GFips » Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:37 am

well said Mumps! It is a great tourney (although i am already out i really enjoy that tourney every year). I am sorry for you, that you could not claim the win. I know you are online each day and Dolla should have found you online ...

I discussed the "Rebirth" Rule with mentor and suggested something like that at the beginning of the torney, because else i would have had no opponent for the first 3 rounds, as all the possible opponents did neither play nor seem not to claim a win. I thought this would not be fair to others, when i (and some others) get a wildcard to round 3 while others get eliminatet in round 1. So if you blame mentor, please blame also me.
Maybe Mentor needs to do some minor changes for future - but that is not Georges fault.

@Rhye: I understand you don't like the actual situation. But you not should not be pissed at George if he wins, farmore you should be pissed at all the people who sign up and don't play. I think one entire week is enough to manage to play 3 fast single games. And as the timeplane was announced before, people who already know they will be afk, should not sign in or ask before the tourney for any exceptions (or at least send a pm to mentor). I think in general (independent which tourney it is - castle, Shogun, Survivor, or what else) it really sucks, when people sign up for tourneys and do not play then. So don't blame george or mentor, blame the afks! I think it is far better, to give people a second chance and see some hot games as if we skip the games because of afks. And don't forgot: with that rule people have a motivation to play their games early in the week instead of waiting till the end of the week in the hope that your opponent does not appear and claim the win.

Mentor clearly postet the rules, that the "loosers", who play first, get another chance. So well done George, you managed to play your game before mine and deserve the extra chance now. I wish you best luck for the next rounds. You were lucky to get 2 wildcards, but well others are lucky and get just the dice they need for 2 wins. It is much about luck in this tourney (e.g. SMB was banned some hours after we played our game. I convinced him to play the game early in the week although he did not want. If i would not have played that game, i would have been lucky also, because the next day he was suspended by the mods. But SMB won fairly and deserved to come to next round. So no need to whine about about it. I wish him much luck for the rest of the tourney). Luck is all you need - nevertheless it is great fun (IMHO)

For sure, as mentor said, the rules can always be discussed, but that cases should be discussed either before the rule takes part or alternative we suggest changes for next year. You will never find a rule, that is 100% fair to everyone.

I personally did not think of the possible case, that someome might get two extra chances. Maybe for next year Mentor should change that, so everyone can get only one extra chance. Well in this case i would have been the lucky one, but George deserves that wildcard for this year.
Also we should discuss, if it should be possible (in future) that one player can use his wild card in the same "line" and so can play the same opponent once more in the next turn. E.g. Mazza would be a unlucky if he looses in round 4 - he won round 3 against george and then gets eliminated bei the same opponent in round 4. That would be a tradegy.

I know both players, George and Mazza are great sportsmen and i wish you both a lot of luck, but if Mazza now looses against George in the next round, i really would feel with you Mazza.

IMHO: please discuss but be fair! Don't just make everything mad! I am sure Mentor always tries his best and he always listens to good sugestions. Thanks for all the work you do mentor! I know you spend lot of your time to let us have great tourneys!

Just my 2 cents about that! Good luck George and everyone who is still in the tourney!
Last edited by GFips on Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:14 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Post by Kude » Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:41 am

s there some sort of handicap if you get brought back? Like five games, instead of three? Maybe something along those lines could calm the hoards...

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Post by mentor09 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:14 am

kude wrote:s there some sort of handicap if you get brought back? Like five games, instead of three? Maybe something along those lines could calm the hoards...
I guess you think about Lucky Loser needs three wins, Loser just two ?

Lucky Losers sight:

Code: Select all

1:0  50%   2:0  25%   3:0  12.5%   win
                      2:1  12.5%   3:1  6.25%   win
                                   2:2  6.25%   loss
           1:1  25%   2:1  12.5%   3:1  6.25%   win
                                   2:2  6.25%   loss
                      1:2  12.5%   loss

0:1  50%   1:1  25%   2:1  12.5%   2:1  6.25%   win
                                   2:2  6.25%   loss
                      1:2  12.5%   loss
           0:2  25%   loss
So Lucky Loser has a chance of 31.25% to win the game
Nice idea - but horrible to fit it into my software...
We could add a single loss, which is almost the same, hehe...

Lucky Loser starts 0:1

Code: Select all

0:1        1:1  50%   2:1  25%   win
                      1:2  25%   loss
           0:2  50%   loss
I prefer the second thing - easy to implement and even 6.25% worse to Mister Lucky :twisted:

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Post by Rhye » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:51 pm

Very well, as I can see that you want me to drop my slight unhappinesses, I am most willing to. I just felt that I needed to say what I did in order to take a bold stance, and see if people were truly with or against this new change.

Now, I have a new point to bring up (a very recent development, actually.)
paranoiarodeo wrote:I have been asked by mentor to make a clarification pertaining to online tournaments and suspended players. Therefore: If a Luxer is suspended by moderators for any reason, then he or she is ineligible to play in any "official" tournaments. If a host allows suspended players to participate in their tournament, then the event will become unsanctioned, and medals will not be awarded on the official Sillysoft player profile pages.

(In other words, Naraku should be disqualified, and dollabillz given a bye for the current round.)

∞ paranoiarodeo hopes this rule clarification has been helpful ∞
Nimrod7 on March 14th wrote:SMB was suspended for 7 days due to abusive language.
Image

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Post by mentor09 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:55 pm

Rhye wrote:Very well, as I can see that you want me to drop my slight unhappinesses, I am most willing to. I just felt that I needed to say what I did in order to take a bold stance, and see if people were truly with or against this new change.

Now, I have a new point to bring up (a very recent development, actually.)
paranoiarodeo wrote:I have been asked by mentor to make a clarification pertaining to online tournaments and suspended players. Therefore: If a Luxer is suspended by moderators for any reason, then he or she is ineligible to play in any "official" tournaments. If a host allows suspended players to participate in their tournament, then the event will become unsanctioned, and medals will not be awarded on the official Sillysoft player profile pages.

(In other words, Naraku should be disqualified, and dollabillz given a bye for the current round.)

∞ paranoiarodeo hopes this rule clarification has been helpful ∞
Nimrod7 on March 14th wrote:SMB was suspended for 7 days due to abusive language.
Image
SMB did not play during his suspension. He finished his game before he got suspended, and plays his game after the suspension i think. Moderators, please ?

And: I do not want anybody to shut his mouth while he is annoyed. Wen can talk about everything - Any clearification will improve the game, right?

*My Kezboard sucks*

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Post by Rhye » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:44 pm

paranoiarodeo wrote:If a Luxer is suspended by moderators for any reason, then he or she is ineligible to play in any "official" tournaments.
To me, that sounds like he is saying that if someone has ever been suspended by moderators for any reason, then he/she is ineligible. Isn't it redundant mentioning that he is ineligible while he is banned?

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Post by nimrod7 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:15 pm

We will have a clarification of the clarification. Personally, I can see this two different ways. So be patient for a little bit please.

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Post by The Silken Knot » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:25 pm

If a Luxer IS suspended, he or she shouldn't participate. Once the suspension has run its course, they are free to play again. SMB played his games with GFips on March 12th (prior to suspension), and the suspension will end in time for the current round to proceed normally.

The clarification was made as a player who's suspended for the rest of the tourney requested that their matches be played in private games.

Hope that helps!

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Post by nimrod7 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:27 pm

See? That did knot take so long did it.

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Post by Rhye » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:43 pm

Err.... what day is this [round] supposed to end? It's confusing because you say that this round ends at "March, 24th 2012 22:59 GMT" (which is tomorrow) yet the semi-finals are on "Saturday - March, 25th 2012 23:00 GMT" Saturday is March 24th though...... (and I assume you actually meant Saturday) which would mean that the deadline was supposed to read March 23rd 2012 22:59 GMT [today]?

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Post by Rhye » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:04 pm

Rhye wrote:Err.... what day is this [round] supposed to end? It's confusing because you say that this round ends at "March, 24th 2012 22:59 GMT" (which is tomorrow) yet the semi-finals are on "Saturday - March, 25th 2012 23:00 GMT" Saturday is March 24th though...... (and I assume you actually meant Saturday) which would mean that the deadline was supposed to read March 23rd 2012 22:59 GMT [today]?
I claim a win if my above quote is true..... if not.... crazygreens.... I'm having some trouble finding you. If you happen to read this.... I may be hanging around the Rome rooms tonight and tomorrow. Hopefully we run into each other.

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Post by mazza » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:38 pm

hard to play with George when he plays when it's 3am my time, and when i log on, George aint nowhere to be seen.....hoping we can find a time in between these times, and yes, time is running out too.....

i would hate to lose out here if we cant find a common time, and i cannot "claim" the victory because i am at work when the 10 min window is open.......

i sorta agree with a lot that has been said by the many players before me, such as Rhye, BWE, Gfips...i guess i also feel for mentor as it aint easy to run a tourney when i suppose so many "variables" are put in place......BUT, it is a little hard for players to take when some players do get 2 wildcards and others do not get one.....

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Post by mazza » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:41 pm

with what Ryhe has said above, does that mean i have to claim a "win" in 4 hrs time.......if i cannot find george??

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Post by Big Will E Style » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:06 pm

same as with Lantern???

i pm'd him...no response.

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Post by Rhye » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:55 pm

mazza wrote:with what Ryhe has said above, does that mean i have to claim a "win" in 4 hrs time.......if i cannot find george??
Well, I'm not sure about what is going on right now. It seems that no one has been able to meet up with their partners yet..... also, the point that I was adressing was a confusion on dates and times. Mentor wrote "Saturday March 25th" for the Semi-Finals, but if you check your calendar, no such day exists. I was assuming that Mentor (since he put Saturday and Sunday for the Semi-finals and Finals) had actually meant to put down March 23rd 22:59 GMT. March 23rd 22:59 GMT would make much more sense than the March 24th 22:59 GMT that he actually wrote. I'm not just going off of a hunch though, he did clearly write "Saturday" and "Sunday" for the Semi-finals and Finals. I suppose though, that no one caught this error until right now..... and I figured that I should bring it to his attention to find out what he actually meant to write. He has not yet responded though, and March 23rd 22:59 GMT (the time I thought he had originally meant to write) has now passed. Judging by the scoreboard, it looks like I was wrong, and he meant for it to end on March 24th, but I still need the date and time of the Semi-finals to be cleared up.

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Post by NWA » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:08 pm

Nimrod7 wrote:See? That did knot take so long did it.
I get it!

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Post by mazza » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:24 pm

Rhye wrote:
mazza wrote:with what Ryhe has said above, does that mean i have to claim a "win" in 4 hrs time.......if i cannot find george??
Well, I'm not sure about what is going on right now. It seems that no one has been able to meet up with their partners yet..... also, the point that I was adressing was a confusion on dates and times. Mentor wrote "Saturday March 25th" for the Semi-Finals, but if you check your calendar, no such day exists. I was assuming that Mentor (since he put Saturday and Sunday for the Semi-finals and Finals) had actually meant to put down March 23rd 22:59 GMT. March 23rd 22:59 GMT would make much more sense than the March 24th 22:59 GMT that he actually wrote. I'm not just going off of a hunch though, he did clearly write "Saturday" and "Sunday" for the Semi-finals and Finals. I suppose though, that no one caught this error until right now..... and I figured that I should bring it to his attention to find out what he actually meant to write. He has not yet responded though, and March 23rd 22:59 GMT (the time I thought he had originally meant to write) has now passed. Judging by the scoreboard, it looks like I was wrong, and he meant for it to end on March 24th, but I still need the date and time of the Semi-finals to be cleared up.


soooo, if none of us can get our games in on time, what hapens then?

Does GFIPS and PJB play off in the final now??

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Post by Lantern » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:53 pm

Hi all sorry I haven't been available the past few days.
Hopefully bwe and I can play tomorrow the 24th

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Post by GFips » Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:04 am

mazza wrote:soooo, if none of us can get our games in on time, what hapens then?

Does GFIPS and PJB play off in the final now??
:D :D :D GFips is ready for the final - lol :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post by Samuel99 » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:20 am

GG SMB


That 29 vs 20 when I attacked the city where I lost all and the city finish intack with no armys on it really sealed my tournment.......

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Post by mentor09 » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:49 am

Rhye wrote:Err.... what day is this [round] supposed to end? It's confusing because you say that this round ends at "March, 24th 2012 22:59 GMT" (which is tomorrow) yet the semi-finals are on "Saturday - March, 25th 2012 23:00 GMT" Saturday is March 24th though...... (and I assume you actually meant Saturday) which would mean that the deadline was supposed to read March 23rd 2012 22:59 GMT [today]?
Damn - I missed that bug...

ok - no one should fail because of my mistake. so: the round ends March, 24th 2012 22:59 GMT.

Semi finals will be played Sunday, March 25th, 23.00 GMT.

Final Games will be played Saturday, March 31st, 23.00 GMT. It might be possible that i am not online then, but normally I should be.

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Post by Lantern » Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:50 pm

great game BWE!!!!!!

:)

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