Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

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Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by Owned » Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:52 pm

Here is where the new raw system will be outlined and discussed. Dustin and the mod squad are very open to ideas from the community. Let us know what you think!

These changes are not aimed at killing BioDeux. These changes are geared towards opening up opportunities to the players who like maps that are not the most popular at the time (BioDuex currently). Now multiple chases can happen at the same time. BioDuex players can chase on their map AND Classic players can chase on their map AND IRE players can chase on their map. This change empowers BioDuex as much as the other maps!

Currently, new raw rankings have opened up for the Classic and Roman maps. These rankings are mutually exclusive from each other and the old overall raw.

The Sillysoft Rankings page has been updated with the new ranking leaderboards.

Here are some threads to read over: Food for thought:
  • Do we want monthly or weekly resets for these new raws?
  • Other than BioDeux, do we want a fourth ranking system? The mod squad + dustin are leaning toward a MOTM raw. Do we want a room that rotates through different maps that has a raw ranking?
  • Do we want an overall raw?
  • How should seeding be done? Overall using an average of all the ranking systems?
  • What if I don't want to play x map or I only want to play y map? How will that affect my seeding or rankings?
  • Will someone place first for every map in a given week/month? Will you worship someone who does? :P
Now join the discussion. This is your chance to make this game into what you want it to be!
Last edited by dustin on Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by Owned » Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:52 pm

This will be an updated changelog of sorts. Whenever a change is made, it will be listed here.

11-21-2015 11-30-2015
  • Classic and Imperium rankings now have a reset. These rankings will be resetting monthly on the same schedule as the MOTM.
12-2-2015
  • Rankings page graphics update.
1-17-2016
  • Raw losses are back for MOTM games, tho they are limited.
  • Raw losses for bot games have been limited more.
  • Max raw win for a game has been limited to 100.
  • Changes affect all maps and hosts.
2-2-2016
  • Raw maximum set to +150
Last edited by dustin on Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:36 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by RogueMonk » Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:18 pm

Where is the RE2 ranking? Or the bio ranking?

And where are the players to populate this?

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by Owned » Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:21 pm

Well the overall is mostly bio right now, but a BioDeux ranking will be introduced. REII might not get its own raw. An idea to make IRE and REII use the same raw was thrown around, but right now it is just IRE raw.

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by Bean » Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:26 pm

I was into the idea that it could be rome 3 ways, IRE, Rome 1, and Rome II.

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by camaro » Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:48 am

this sounds like an Horrid idea... are there enough players to divide raw up like that? multiple weekly 1sp places? this idea smells funny

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by PJB » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:53 am

Owned wrote: Currently, new raw rankings have opened up for the Classic and Imperium Romanum Expletus maps. These rankings are mutually exclusive from each other and the old overall raw.

The Sillysoft Rankings page has been updated with the new ranking leaderboards.
Very cool, i like it!

good work :smt023

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by Owned » Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:40 pm

camaro wrote:this sounds like an Horrid idea... are there enough players to divide raw up like that? multiple weekly 1sp places? this idea smells funny
Currently, the Imperium and Classic raws do not reset weekly, although they might in the future. There is talk of whether or not to make everything monthly. And if there aren't enough players, it will just stay how it was before the change with everyone in one room. However, this change gives Imperium and Classic players the chance to compete on their map vs the popular map.

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by camaro » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:38 pm

okay after i looked at it .. i'm fine as long as there is still an OVERALL ranking in which medals and seeds are determined. I would be greatly opposed to a monthly raw reset due to historical purposes.

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by camaro » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:39 pm

i would make the weekly medals different than the overall weekly medals... nots as big and less shiney :smt019

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by Dangerous Beans » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:21 pm

I think seeds should be based on an average of all 3 ranking systems. Seeds are a measure of a players overall strength over time. Naturally the seeds should take into equal account all 3 rankings, meaning even if you get 1st every week in one of the rankings, you will still have to prove that your skills carry over to any map you are on, and not just the result of over-playing one map.

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by dustin » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:14 pm

yea, I like that idea

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by PJB » Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:52 pm

Owned wrote:
11-21-2015
I don't think that my last 3 classic games are recorded/included in the classic rankings. My and others players classic raw stayed the same since yesterday even though we played a FH classic game and some other games as well.

Am i wrong? Dustin?

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by mnemosyne » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:05 pm

i have a nutty and not terribly novel idea . . .

how about we allow the players to determine what maps receive the most attention and play rather than allow a couple mods who seem to mostly sit on the sidelines tell us what maps we *should* be playing?!

perhaps that is too democratic for ol' lux. :smt018

that being said, i do like the idea of incentivizing play on a diversity of maps. in particular, i wish there was more play on featured motw/motm maps. perhaps we can start a featured sticky thread where people can give input into what maps they would like to see so featured. maybe that will generate more enthusiasm for and involvement in different maps, and encourage players to explore the lovely variety of maps in the lux archives. maybe we could have a top three maps ballot each week/month and allow people to vote on which one they would like to see featured.

the downside of requiring play across the 2 now officially sanctioned maps (i.e. classic and imperium) is that there are rarely if ever full house games on those maps (classic more so than imperium), so you have to time it just right to get games that matter on those maps, and that is not terribly convenient, or fair (too bad there isn't an alert text that we could receive telling us that there are actually players in classic, lol).

the other concern i have is that for those of us who play on trackpads, we simply do not have the speed to cover the entire imperium map. i have tried many times, and i do not even come close. its no fun to play a map that you have no chance of winning. as such, i will not play imperium under the current conditions. if that means my ranking takes a hit, so be it. its not like i really care much about rank/raw these days in the twilight years of luxdom, but fair is fair despite what the powers that be may dictate. one way to ameliorate this might be to simply increase turn times to level the playing field. winning games because you are simply faster than other players (b/c you have a mouse, or whatever) is a normative judgment, and not a terribly noble way to win. there was a player a few moons ago who admitted that s/he had a debilitating motor skills condition that prevented her/him from playing faster (after getting harassed for being 'too slow' by numerous other insensitive players). having fast turn times that do not allow players to cover the entire map is not terribly accommodating or inviting in my estimation, especially for new players who do not understand the nuances of proper pathing and such.

my humble .02 on this issue (and the continuing anti-democratic raw and bio tinkering)

m

:catrun

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by paranoiarodeo » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:18 pm

mnemosyne wrote:how about we allow the players to determine what maps receive the most attention and play rather than allow a couple mods who seem to mostly sit on the sidelines tell us what maps we *should* be playing?!
∞ paranoiarodeo hear fucking hears ∞

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by Owned » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:49 pm

mnemosyne wrote:i have a nutty and not terribly novel idea . . .

how about we allow the players to determine what maps receive the most attention and play rather than allow a couple mods who seem to mostly sit on the sidelines tell us what maps we *should* be playing?!

perhaps that is too democratic for ol' lux. :smt018

that being said, i do like the idea of incentivizing play on a diversity of maps. in particular, i wish there was more play on featured motw/motm maps. perhaps we can start a featured sticky thread where people can give input into what maps they would like to see so featured. maybe that will generate more enthusiasm for and involvement in different maps, and encourage players to explore the lovely variety of maps in the lux archives. maybe we could have a top three maps ballot each week/month and allow people to vote on which one they would like to see featured.

the downside of requiring play across the 2 now officially sanctioned maps (i.e. classic and imperium) is that there are rarely if ever full house games on those maps (classic more so than imperium), so you have to time it just right to get games that matter on those maps, and that is not terribly convenient, or fair (too bad there isn't an alert text that we could receive telling us that there are actually players in classic, lol).

the other concern i have is that for those of us who play on trackpads, we simply do not have the speed to cover the entire imperium map. i have tried many times, and i do not even come close. its no fun to play a map that you have no chance of winning. as such, i will not play imperium under the current conditions. if that means my ranking takes a hit, so be it. its not like i really care much about rank/raw these days in the twilight years of luxdom, but fair is fair despite what the powers that be may dictate. one way to ameliorate this might be to simply increase turn times to level the playing field. winning games because you are simply faster than other players (b/c you have a mouse, or whatever) is a normative judgment, and not a terribly noble way to win. there was a player a few moons ago who admitted that s/he had a debilitating motor skills condition that prevented her/him from playing faster (after getting harassed for being 'too slow' by numerous other insensitive players). having fast turn times that do not allow players to cover the entire map is not terribly accommodating or inviting in my estimation, especially for new players who do not understand the nuances of proper pathing and such.

my humble .02 on this issue (and the continuing anti-democratic raw and bio tinkering)

m

:catrun
Nowhere have dustin or the mod squad forced anyone to play on the Classic or Imperium maps. The popular maps will always be determined by the players.

I believe BioDeux does not have it's own ranking just because dustin is out of retail space on the rankings page (since overall raw IS still a thing). Also, no medals have been awarded for the Classic or Imperium rankings, so what requirement forces people to play on Classic or Imperium Romanum Expletus? If anything, the new rankings just give the Classic or Imperium players something to strive for, not everyone enjoys playing the most popular map of the time.

I think with your opinions, you should suggest that seeds be separated by map along with the weekly/monthly rankings. That would be opposed to the idea to generate seeding based upon an average of all the rankings.

Turn time limit is not a factor in Risk, but it is a part of Lux. Turn timers can be increased if the community wants it, but relatively short timers have been around for a while (they help with afks, players not ending their turns, and quicker games). Mods have the power to change dustin's settings, so if you are in an Imperium room with a mod, ask them if they can increase the timer.

Oh and I posted this thread to allow community input, not so we could walk all over you and tell you what to do. Is that not democratic enough?

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by RogueMonk » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:58 pm

Owned wrote:I think with your opinions, you should...
Owned wrote:Oh and I posted this thread to allow community input, not so we could tell you what to do.
:smt017

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by paranoiarodeo » Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:12 pm

Owned wrote:I believe BioDeux does not have it's own ranking just because dustin is out of retail space on the rankings page.
I hate to be that guy, but geez, maybe that shoulda been your first clue that balkanizing the rankings into multiple subdivisions was a bad idea? Game statistics and rewards should never be so complicated that they require detailed maps and legends. No one should have to click around multiple webpages to figure things out.

(Ever wonder how many of the old MOTWs were ever played again online after they were gang banged by a small group of players for the RAW bonus? The answer would surprise you. It's much less than you'd ever guess as a worst case scenario.)

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by Bean » Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:35 pm

Sure; do a survey for what non-bio-classic-imperium maps folks would like. I'll host some. Of course, they could host themselves too. Lux is pretty democratic that way. I don't know that anyone owes anyone any particular map as far as hosting goes. I choose to host some things. Dustin chooses. He is more democratic than I would be. There are options for playing different maps and now there are options for rankings that are not just one size fits all. I don't even know where the lack of democracy is. Anyway, I don't go in for democracy in a business anyway. It's the market; and the market seems to be speaking and taking a vote over every little bit of tinkering seems like a silly proposal. Did you see the movie, "The Chef." The chef got creamed by a critic because the boss insisted he offer the popular menu when the critic visited the restaurant. Lux seems to be pretty small right now, and not addressing its abusive culture and other factors that may prevent growth/retention seems foolhardy no matter how pretty you make it with talk of democracy.

You might like Imperium and other big maps if you break down and spend the $10 for a mouse.

You said you like the idea of more diversity, but something about offering it without input rubs you the wrong way? I don't know what do think about that, but it sort of looks like I'll just go with the antidemocratic view in this context.

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by WhirlPlaid » Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:38 pm

paranoiarodeo wrote: I hate to be that guy
Then why be that guy?

The goal with ADDITIONAL rankings for the Classic and Expletus maps, is to provide incentive for older Classic players to come and enjoy a leaderboard of their own without the RAW conflicts associated with biodeux. It is not an insult to biodeux players, it is not an exclusionary situation, it is an attempt to breath life back into something that (at one point) we all here loved. The rankings page accumulative RAW has gone unchanged. It is still RAW from all RANKED games. The addition of Expletus and Classic leaderboards is merely an approach to add variety to our gaming. Variety is the spice of life you know?

mmmmm spicy.

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by Bean » Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:40 pm

Para was the king of democratic behavior during his time, but still..

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by paranoiarodeo » Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:41 pm

WhirlPlaid wrote:The goal with ADDITIONAL rankings for the Classic and Expletus maps, is to provide incentive for older Classic players to come and enjoy a leaderboard of their own without the RAW conflicts associated with biodeux.
Then you completely misunderstand why all of the old classic players left in the first place.

(But do please keep pretending you all are doing hard work and making big changes that'll save Lux from oblivion.)

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by RogueMonk » Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:46 pm

WhirlPlaid wrote:The addition of Expletus and Classic leaderboards is merely an approach to add variety to our gaming.
What's funny is that you actually believe that.


/me keeps trying to pull out WhirlPlaid's stubborn matrix jack.

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by paranoiarodeo » Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:46 pm

Bean wrote:Para was the king of democratic behavior during his time, but still..
Cute, Bean. Brave of you to criticize when you know I can't respond without your explicit approval.

(Go back and look at how many peeps I forum banned during my time hosting these forums.)

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by RogueMonk » Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:48 pm

Bean wrote:Para was the king of democratic behavior during his time, but still..
Image

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by The Silken Knot » Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:48 pm

dollabillz wrote:idgaf but I find the new mod personas pretty creepy and weird
+1

(Pluses are positive...)
:D

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by nimrod7 » Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:06 pm

I'm wondering when mister monk is going to contribute something to this thread other than "No negativity" gifs and smileys.
mnemosyne wrote:how about we allow the players to determine what maps receive the most attention and play rather than allow a couple mods who seem to mostly sit on the sidelines tell us what maps we *should* be playing?!
If you look here: http://sillysoft.net/lux/rankings/maps/

the top three maps played over the last thirty days are Bio, Expletus, and Classic. Therefore, the players have determined what maps receive the most attention and play.

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by Owned » Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:53 pm

RogueMonk wrote:
Owned wrote:I think with your opinions, you should...
Owned wrote:Oh and I posted this thread to allow community input, not so we could tell you what to do.
:smt017
Haha, clever monk. I am just practicing my Jedi Mind Tricks for the upcoming movie. :D

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by WhirlPlaid » Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:07 pm

paranoiarodeo wrote:
WhirlPlaid wrote:The goal with ADDITIONAL rankings for the Classic and Expletus maps, is to provide incentive for older Classic players to come and enjoy a leaderboard of their own without the RAW conflicts associated with biodeux.
Then you completely misunderstand why all of the old classic players left in the first place.

(But do please keep pretending you all are doing hard work and making big changes that'll save Lux from oblivion.)
None of us are working hard. We are here for fun. I personally am not foolish enough to accept this as a form of work.

Save Lux from oblivion? Impossible. We all fade away eventually.

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Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by nimrod7 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:26 am

WhirlPlaid wrote:Save Lux from oblivion? Impossible. We all fade away eventually.
Whirly pretty much summed it up. Whoever thinks the "glory days" of Lux will somehow come back is fooling themselves.

I don't play much anymore, but I don't have a problem with anyone coming up with ways to make this place better.

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