10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Game of universal domination. New dice available free upon request.
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hoodie
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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by hoodie » Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:19 pm

the room is hopping on and off the tracker, keep checking. not sure why its acting up, but its there if you refresh a bunch

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by Naraku » Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:21 pm

:torch: What is up today with the last day of finals? Does a mod need to be present to switch the winner's picK? Why does the host keep disappearing from the tracker?
Does anyone have any idea what is going on right now? :panic:

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by kitty on catnip » Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:23 pm


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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by Naraku » Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:43 pm

BEAN we see you & PJB lurking the forums!!! join now!!! fast!


/me flashes the BEAN signal!!!! we need you PRONTO!!!

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by kitty on catnip » Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:15 pm

MODS COULD PLEASE GET A STRICT END TIME SCHEDULE MAPPED OUT FOR THE FINAL DAYS PLEASE? THANK YOU SO MUCH.

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by kitty on catnip » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:42 pm

CONGRATULATIONS TO THE FOLLOWING TEAMS

A I R :smt024 :smt024 :smt024 :smt024

V I R T U E :smt024 :smt024 :smt024 :smt024 :smt024

E A R T H :smt024 :smt024 :smt024 :smt024 :smt024


Image

Great Games and see you in the finals for some juicy competition!!!

:pop :pop :pop :pop :pop :pop :pop :pop :pop :pop :pop :pop :pop :pop :pop :pop :pop :pop

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by kitty on catnip » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:54 pm

Oh yeah, and great job team BANE/FIRE/WATER for participating :D

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by Dangerous Beans » Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:37 pm

Are the finals actually going to be March 1st, 3rd, and 5th?

What time will they begin and at what time will no more new games be hosted?

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by kitty on catnip » Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:40 pm

kitty on catnip wrote:MODS COULD PLEASE GET A STRICT END TIME SCHEDULE MAPPED OUT FOR THE FINAL DAYS PLEASE? THANK YOU SO MUCH.
JUST IN CASE YOU MISSED IT THIS IS VITALLY IMPORTANT.

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by Bean » Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:13 am

Hey folks,
congrats to everyone for a great series of games. If you are air, virtue, or earth, please check your PM inbox for my inquiry into your time availability.
cheers
shawn

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by GFips » Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:28 am

That have been some very nice games till yet.

Congrats to all teams (i think it was very Close, beside AIR) and a BIG THANKS to all the mods (and Dustin) for the efforts and time you all put in. Thanks to all players making this an real fun event (i agree i was sceptical before the tournament, but it definitly was great FUN and we had great games!)

I personally want to apologize for some real bad play of myself in some games. I several times missed kills and ruined other games. It was never intentionally, i was just to slow or too stoopid. Sorry for this.

Some awesome records to mention:
Big Congrats to DB for an real awesome series of games (he won 10 out of 19 games he played. WOW :smt023) - my official vote for the Castle MVP gold award this year!!!!
also to mention "lonely Baner" Naraku, who did awesome 85(!) games - he made nearly all the points of Bane, followed by King with 65(!) games keeping water up.
also congrats to the whole team AIR, who did an awesome job and is far in the lead. They also managed to play all or nearly all the games in addition. Perfect teamwork to have always competitive players present (most times i even saw at least 2 Air players around)! Kudos!

I am now looking forward to some extra fun games in the finals :-)
Lets try the chance to reach up Air! Maybe we should give DB a big handycap (left hand mouse clicking) so that others have a chance ;-) (just kidding - AIR did very well and is well deserved far in the lead till yet. But it is not over and we will give our best to reach up and bypass AIR!)

By the way: i also want to bring back the nice work H0b0 did:
http://luxkillz.sitegrep.com/host-by-mo ... les/201602
it is an alternative ranking system and has nothing to do with the scoring of the tournament, but the page also gives some nice statistics over the individual game play of each player of the catsle tournament (win%, games played etc). Real nice work h0b0! This work should get more attention in general here in the community.

----

For the shedule of the finals: please consider we all have a life outside of lux. We all spent already much time for this tournament, but with only 4-5 players (wehereas mostly 1-3 are afk most of the time - beside AIR which was always present, but speaking of other teams) per team (usually having also differnt time zones) please do not make a too heavy shedule ...
Last edited by GFips on Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by kitty on catnip » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:29 am

http://luxkillz.sitegrep.com/host-by-mo ... les/201602

You do realize that this ranking system is broke as fuck right lol

All you have to do is look at the actual rankings to see that it's obviously broke.

But yeah naraku held it down as best he could having to play every game for multiple days because Owned quit the tourney and all the most inactive players were given to BANE .

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by h0b0 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:18 pm

Kitty, What is broke as fuck about it?

Seems to match up games played number wise for most players, youre an exception, so you've probably played extra games on the host that were not part of the tourney. The trueskill is ok since Dangerous Beans won over half his games which is a mile ahead of everyone else. His tally attests to this fact. The other tally's seem in a similar order. Trueskill is not just about performance, but also who you perform against.

Beans played high quality games you played a high amount of games.

Since the castles tourney tallys points on #games played the ranks are going to be different.

Perhaps you are just don't like alternatives?

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by GFips » Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:30 pm

h0b0 wrote:youre an exception, so you've probably played extra games on the host that were not part of the tourney.
I think there were some single games going on with less than 4 human players. They did not count to the tourney, but are in h0b0's trueskills. So yes, it does not match 100% for every player. Sorry i have not thought of this (my fault, not h0b0's! don't blame his ranking system) - nevertheless it gives some nice statistics about win%, AVG-place and wins for at least the most players.

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by h0b0 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:39 pm

Thanks Gfips, that would explain it.

And thanks for your kind words about the system too :)

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by kitty on catnip » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:30 pm

h0b0 wrote:Kitty, What is broke as fuck about it?
lol h0b0 ok

yeah, a player that has 13.5win% with 3.0avg place and another player with 21win% and 3.4 avg place and another player with 21.2win% with 3.3 avg place are ranked higher than another player that has 23win% with 3.2 avg place.

LOL ok so you are using Dangerous to justify that the rankings are accurate. What a load of crap LOL - DB is a good player and the scoring system recognizes his 50win% with stellar avg place but that is a total anomaly (I am quite positive DB himself will say it's an anomaly as well) and you haven't accounted for the other top 10 ordered the way they are.

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by WhirlPlaid » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:33 pm

13.5%

:smt009

My worst castle showing ever.

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by Big Will E Style » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:44 pm

I'm even worse Whirl. I didn't even win a FH game in the one I did win.

Luckily my teammates picked me up.

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by h0b0 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:20 pm

Yes Kitty, that is correct. Basically, you played shittier games.

See below:

+-----------+------------+-----------+---------+------------+---------------------+
| player_id | nick | avg_place | host | avg_humans | end |
+-----------+------------+-----------+---------+------------+---------------------+
| 18723 | WhirlPlaid | 3.0000 | CASTLES | 5.3784 | 2016-02-04 23:13:20 |

| 23507 | Naraku | 3.3765 | CASTLES | 5.4118 | 2016-02-04 14:23:27 |

| 16027 | kitty on catnip | 3.0820 | CASTLES | 5.1803 | 2016-02-04 15:39:18 |
+-----------+-----------------+-----------+---------+------------+---------------------+

here is an example of you verse whirplaid in FH castle games:

+-----------+-----------------+-----------+---------+------------+---------------------+
| player_id | nick | avg_place | host | avg_humans | end |
+-----------+-----------------+-----------+---------+------------+---------------------+
| 16027 | kitty on catnip | 3.5625 | CASTLES | 6.0000 | 2016-02-06 14:47:14 |

| 18723 | WhirlPlaid | 3.0500 | CASTLES | 6.0000 | 2016-02-13 15:21:23 |
+-----------+------------+-----------+---------+------------+---------------------+

yep, that's right Whirl kicks your ass there too.

And the above doesn't take into account the skill of the other players in the games.

Look at the Tally or PPGA on dustins scoreboard, you can clearly see that it shows DB performed the best as does trueskill.

I've been thinking about displaying the average skill of the games each player plays, that way you will see that win percentage and average place do not necessarily have a direct correlation with winning percentage. A win against a set of noobs is not as good as a win against a group of vets.

It's an alternative, an experiment, it is not a replacement for raw. If you don't like it, don't look it.

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by h0b0 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:54 pm

And just for some more evidence kitty, you and whirl played 16 games together.

Whirl placed better in 14 of them, you placed better than whirl in 2..

You can no doub't help me with my maths, but as it stands I think Whirlplaid performed better than you.

+---------+-----------------+-----------+---------+------------+--------------+---------------------+
| game_id | nick | place | host | humans | numberRobots | end |
+---------+-----------------+-----------+---------+------------+--------------+---------------------+
| 1949819 | WhirlPlaid | 3 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-13 15:39:42 |
| 1949819 | kitty on catnip | 4 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-13 15:39:42 |

| 1949859 | WhirlPlaid | 4 | CASTLES | 5 | 0 | 2016-02-13 19:00:28 |
| 1949859 | kitty on catnip | 5 | CASTLES | 5 | 0 | 2016-02-13 19:00:28 |

| 1950043 | WhirlPlaid | 2 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-14 20:20:53 |
| 1950043 | kitty on catnip | 6 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-14 20:20:53 |

| 1950934 | WhirlPlaid | 1 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-20 13:26:16 |
| 1950934 | kitty on catnip | 3 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-20 13:26:16 |

| 1950980 | WhirlPlaid | 3 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-20 19:29:50 |
| 1950980 | kitty on catnip | 5 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-20 19:29:50 |

| 1950983 | WhirlPlaid | 4 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-20 19:51:16 |
| 1950983 | kitty on catnip | 6 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-20 19:51:16 |

| 1951855 | WhirlPlaid | 2 | CASTLES | 4 | 0 | 2016-02-27 13:48:19 |
| 1951855 | kitty on catnip | 3 | CASTLES | 4 | 0 | 2016-02-27 13:48:19 |

| 1951861 | WhirlPlaid | 3 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-27 14:26:43 |
| 1951861 | kitty on catnip | 6 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-27 14:26:43 |

| 1951873 | kitty on catnip | 3 | CASTLES | 4 | 0 | 2016-02-27 15:20:29 |
| 1951873 | WhirlPlaid | 4 | CASTLES | 4 | 0 | 2016-02-27 15:20:29 |

| 1951878 | WhirlPlaid | 2 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-27 16:03:38 |
| 1951878 | kitty on catnip | 3 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-27 16:03:38 |

| 1951886 | WhirlPlaid | 1 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-27 17:14:54 |
| 1951886 | kitty on catnip | 5 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-27 17:14:54 |

| 1951892 | WhirlPlaid | 3 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-27 17:59:24 |
| 1951892 | kitty on catnip | 4 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-27 17:59:24 |

| 1951895 | WhirlPlaid | 2 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-27 18:31:42 |
| 1951895 | kitty on catnip | 6 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-27 18:31:42 |

| 1951914 | kitty on catnip | 2 | CASTLES | 5 | 0 | 2016-02-27 20:21:16 |
| 1951914 | WhirlPlaid | 5 | CASTLES | 5 | 0 | 2016-02-27 20:21:16 |

| 1951921 | WhirlPlaid | 1 | CASTLES | 4 | 0 | 2016-02-27 21:18:51 |
| 1951921 | kitty on catnip | 4 | CASTLES | 4 | 0 | 2016-02-27 21:18:51 |

| 1952045 | WhirlPlaid | 3 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-28 17:17:16 |
| 1952045 | kitty on catnip | 5 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-28 17:17:16 |

+---------+-----------------+-----------+---------+------------+--------------+---------------------+
| game_id | nick | avg_place | host | avg_humans | numberRobots | end |
+---------+-----------------+-----------+---------+------------+--------------+---------------------+
| 1949819 | WhirlPlaid | 2.7333 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-13 15:39:42 |
| 1949819 | kitty on catnip | 4.4667 | CASTLES | 6 | 0 | 2016-02-13 15:39:42 |
+---------+-----------------+-----------+---------+------------+--------------+---------------------+
Last edited by h0b0 on Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by kitty on catnip » Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:24 pm

ok so Whirl wins much less games, plays less games but has the luxury of playing in games that also have DB in it to weight his stats better than my stats because I didn't play any games against DB.

BTW I think Whirl is clearly an anomaly too bc he should have performed better than his stats suggested.

Needless to say, 20 to 50 games is HARDLY enough games to prove any reasonable amount of correct stats within a group of players. That's why some of the stats are wildly fluctuating within the group.

h0b0 you think that 'performing better' means a better avg place? But you are implying that if Whirl got 100 games where he placed 2nd or 3rd every game with no 1sts, 4ths/5ths/6ths that you would argue even though he has 0win% that he would 'perform better' than I would if I had 35win% but a plethora of 5ths and 6ths

King, naraku, whirl and the others had the luxury of playing in games against DB which would weight their stats a bit better since I was on the same team as DB and never played him.

I might go as far as to say that your ranking system may work reasonably well if given a very large # of data points - But it obviously fails miserably when using a low set of data points like in the castle tourney.

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by h0b0 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:39 pm

Kitty, as far as trueskill is concerned, yes a player who never wins but scores 2nd or 3rds consistently may have a better skill value than a player who wins games but has a lower average place. It depends who is playing and what their prior skill is.

Even if you havent played DB, you have played people who have played with DB. So your skill is still relative.

This is what the trueskill says about the lux data, that's all every result goes through the same algorithm.

I built it because I thought it would be interesting, I think it is, and I also think it gives a pretty good representation of how people are playing.

If you don't, that's fine, but this is what these numbers say.

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by kitty on catnip » Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:41 pm

h0b0 it's broke needs some fixin but you're on the right path :smt058

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by h0b0 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:01 pm

kitty on catnip wrote: Needless to say, 20 to 50 games is HARDLY enough games to prove any reasonable amount of correct stats within a group of players. That's why some of the stats are wildly fluctuating within the group.
Yes I am inclined to agree, but does any scoring system do it properly on a small sample?

Is raw any better, is dustins system any more accurate, It clearly shows DB earned the most PPGA than anyone.. Maybe if he played 3 times the games his PPGA would be the same?

Scoring systems measure performance over time, which is what a tourney is right, or a weekly raw chase or maybe even an olympic marathon.
Last edited by h0b0 on Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by RogueMonk » Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:02 pm

kitty on catnip wrote:But yeah naraku held it down as best he could having to play every game for multiple days because Owned quit the tourney and all the most inactive players were given to BANE .
Owned quit? Seriously?

Wait - didn't Naraku quit too (earlier)?

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by dustin » Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:58 pm

Owned did not quit.

Naraku also did not quit, he was playing till the end.

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by The Silken Knot » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:04 pm


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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by kitty on catnip » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:06 pm

We must state what our personal definitions of 'quit' are :pop

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by Bean » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:13 pm

Some results back from my PM inquiries re: scheduling. Pretty grim. Definitely no Tues and I struggle to see more than a few hours total between Th and Sat. Ideas thrown around. Mulling and pondering seem to be happening. :D

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Re: 10th ANNUAL LUX CASTLE TOURNAMENT

Post by kitty on catnip » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:18 pm

Bean wrote:Some results back from my PM inquiries re: scheduling. Pretty grim. Definitely no Tues and I struggle to see more than a few hours total between Th and Sat. Ideas thrown around. Mulling and pondering seem to be happening. :D
Don't say I didn't warn you at an earlier time that this would most likely happen.

2v2v2 or even 2v2 would be difficult to keep running with the limited # of players...

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