This is why I like Bio

[plane crazy]

So, I love the bio map. It is my favorite map. I have played over 9000 bio games to date and am still sane, still a ‘nice” player. I have lots of Lux friends and have never been banned for any misdeed. Am I a good player? Yes, not great, not gifted, just good. Average.

There are a lot of bio-haters out there in Lux land. They do not like the map, is a flawed map, they do not like the players, they do not care for the strategy, the start counts for too much, bio ruined Lux, bio is too popular, etc…..

I bought Lux 10 years ago and played with bots for 3 years until I played my first on-line game. And it was my first ever on-line game of any kind. Yes, bio was the first map I ever played on-line. The players were tough, mean and raked noobs into the dirt. I see now I had a very thick skin to handle the vets bias against new players and the nasty chat that occurs. I played almost 200 games before I ever won a game. It was great. It is still great to play.

As to the extreme politics surrounding the creator, his minions, past minions and the players. I just try to ignore it, and play.

So I raise a toast to Lux and it’s bastard child, Bio, the best $20 bucks I ever spent in terms of entertainment value.

Cheers,

Glen

[kitty on catnip]

You've played 40'ish games on non bio maps, and less than 1% on non bio maps.

You don't have anything to compare it to. But it's nice you enjoy it.

I encourage you to play MOTM during a full house and see the difference in conversation and discussion about strategy.

You're living in Plato's cave at the moment, without the realization that the cave is not the entire world, but once you step outside the cave...is when you finally realize bio is the cave...and the outside world has more to offer in lux.

[plane crazy]

I have played over 30 different maps. A hundred games that were not bio. I found I don't care to learn a new map, then have it go away like the MOTM.

Unlike the denizens of Plato's cave. I have seen the outside world. I choose Bio because I really like it. I am an old guy who enjoys his weed. Learning new maps is tough work, not joyful fun. But thanks for the invite. And thanks for coming back to Lux and hosting.

Friend to all cats,

Glen

[imapickle]

The last few months since the exponential cards and other things were introduced, I have been enjoying bio. I find that often i am having enjoyable and even sometimes good quality games. The latter is far from guaranteed on any map.

Also I think the general atmosphere in the bio room is not that bad. There is a certain amount of tantrums and suiciding etc but I am not sure it is any worse than when I used to play rome or classic.

[Carl Spackler]

You've played 40'ish games on non bio maps, and less than 1% on non bio maps.



You're living in Plato's cave at the moment, without the realization that the cave is not the entire world, but once you step outside the cave...is when you finally realize bio is the cave...and the outside world has more to offer in lux.

The Political Scientist in Spacky really appreciates the Plato reference......

[dustin]

Biohazard makes for a fast dynamic free-wheeling game. That's what I like about it.

[kitty on catnip]

Biohazard makes for a fast dynamic free-wheeling game. That's what I like about it.

lol and yet you have in the past called it the 'ghetto'.

[dustin]

Maybe I have, but as a jest.

Actually, the student housing I lived in in montreal was affectionately called the "mcgill ghetto" so maybe it's easy for me to throw that word around. I do see how the messaging of that could be taken too far. Perhaps we can come up with a better catchy term for it. The bio bazaar?

[n00less cluebie]

Is Bio exciting? Yes. Is it varied and dynamic yes?

Can a majority of players play it even halfway well? No.

Bio is a much more complex game than any other, and it's VERY easy to either make a bad move, or what seems even more likely MISSING making a good move by being foolishly cautious. Looking at how it's played, there seems to be an average of 2-3 massive blunders in each game. Do the blunders cancel each other out? Sometimes. Are there examples of good play? Sometimes.

Yes, the atmosphere has improved--there are fewer intentional suicide and half-kills than there used to be, but it's still an UGLY UGLY game.

It's like watching new chess players decide to play Blitz or Lightning games because it's quicker paced and may be more "fun", but in the end, it allows fewer opportunities to become a better Lux player.

[kitty on catnip]

Bio is a much more complex game than any other

Is it harder to swim in the 3 foot kiddie pool than in a roaring ocean?

[n00less cluebie]

More complex doesn't mean better or harder, but Bio is by definition more complex than Classic in that there are many more possible maps (even though many of them are poor)

[Carl Spackler]

I am an old guy who enjoys his weed. Learning new maps is tough work, not joyful fun. But thanks for the invite.

Glen

Can't blame a guy who knows what he likes. As Clint Eastwood once said, "A man's gotta know his limitations..."

Yours in weedfull Bio bliss....

[n00less cluebie]

The question is whether the Gameplay COULD be improved and whether it is teachable to new players without having to resort to getting people to learn in Classic, because it seems impossible to get people to play Classic.

[Big Will E Style]

You all ask what is wrong with Bio and how classic players are just mad people don't play their way...here is a prime example of why learning the classic game is necessary for new players. Toxik, someone I would consider a decent bio opponent, has 1,845 total games under his belt and said the following after he was unable to cash on a kill where he had 1 card and the opponent had 3 cards. Right after his play, I made a kill with 1 card on a player with 4 cards and was able to cash.

toxik9: I have 4 matching cards and cant cash?
toxik9: and you capture and cash???
█ Big Will E Style: you need 5 on a kill tokix
█ Big Will E Style: toxik
toxik9: game settings suck

I didn't want to create a brand new thread for this since there is a new one every week, but I thought evidence of a player we have all played with and watched win on the Bio map, not understanding when you are able to cash on a kill would maybe shed a light onto why Bio is so frustrating for some.

[Shockandawe]

You aren't going to learn that any sooner playing classic though.

When playing a board game. Read the rule book.

[Hey Man]

Yours in weedfull Bio bliss....

That may have to be my new tagline...

[Big Will E Style]

You are going to learn it sooner or you will never win a game. Bio can win based off income alone. You will win extremely rarely if you don't know when to make a kill for cards in classic.

[RogueMonk]

You all ask what is wrong with Bio and how classic players are just mad people don't play their way...here is a prime example of why learning the classic game is necessary for new players. Toxik, someone I would consider a decent bio opponent, has 1,845 total games under his belt and said the following after he was unable to cash on a kill where he had 1 card and the opponent had 3 cards. Right after his play, I made a kill with 1 card on a player with 4 cards and was able to cash.

toxik9: I have 4 matching cards and cant cash?
toxik9: and you capture and cash???
█ Big Will E Style: you need 5 on a kill tokix
█ Big Will E Style: toxik
toxik9: game settings suck

I didn't want to create a brand new thread for this since there is a new one every week, but I thought evidence of a player we have all played with and watched win on the Bio map, not understanding when you are able to cash on a kill would maybe shed a light onto why Bio is so frustrating for some.

[Big Will E Style]

Rogue, you seem to have a hard time understanding what people are addressing on these forums. Maybe you should tone down the snark until it relates to what's actually happening in specific conversations.

[RogueMonk]

^^^^ See the post before last. Seems appropriate, again.

Thanks again for gracing with your superiority.

[n00less cluebie]

I don't think will's point was about superiority, it was about how many Bio players manage to get away without learning all the rules/tricks of the game and still manage to do ok on that map most of the time.

[Shockandawe]

That player probably isn't going to want to play classic though.

As you've said it's been repeated again and again about Bio. You can't force people to like Classic...

...and they aren't going to play something they don't like.

[Symbiosis]

I think the fact that a decent player who has played almost 2k games doesn't know that you can't cash if you only have 4 cards after a kill is perfectly relevant and makes a fair point about bio. Calling BWE arrogant for making the point isn't fair.

[Dangerous Beans]

You aren't going to learn that any sooner playing classic though.

When playing a board game. Read the rule book.

[Dangerous Beans]

There is nothing wrong with Bio by itself. But it is by all means and standards a easier and less complex game than classic. The obvious comparison is chess to checkers, and we all know which one is checkers.

There is nothing wrong with enjoying checkers, but when all the kids who like to play checkers bring it to a chess area and use the boards normally used for chess in order to play checkers, of course the chess players are gonna talk about how much of a "superior" game chess is.

The checkers kids have already chased off 99% of the chess players, and the 1% that remained and are forced to play checkers instead of the more complex and more intricate chess that they prefer are, of course, going to talk about how much checkers sucks compared to chess.

So yea, fuck checkers.

[Rhye]

It sounds less lame if you call it Draughts.

('Cause it sounds like it's short for Dreadnoughts.)

[n00less cluebie]

Checkers : Chess :: Bio : Classic is not QUITE apt....

If classic is Chess, Bio is like lightning BugHouse. Instead of the leisurely 90-minute game clocks you have one-minute for the game which means whole swaths of long-range planning and strategy MUST disappear. Oh and when you capture an opponent's piece you get to place it on the board on YOUR side, so the games play quite differently.

So to go back to Will's example, it's like coming to said chess club and finding the regulars incredulous that Will captured "en passant"....

[Dangerous Beans]

Except the timer today in Bio (~30s) is longer than it normally used to be in classic (~26-29s), so you have relatively the exact same time to plan in classic that you do in bio.

The amount of planning you can do in chess is a lot more than you would have to do in checkers.

The difference is like you said, Bio players are unaware of "en passant" and other more "sophisticated" moves/strategies that make chess what it is. If you want to take away all the rules of chess, eventually you will get to a more simple game variant, possibly similar to checkers.

Long-range planning and strategy do NOT have to disappear in bio (but there is no denying the amount of effort required to be successful in bio is drastically less than in classic) , they just did in the general population of bio-dwellers because most people just don't care enough to learn the strategy anymore, they would rather play 2 games at once or watch youtube videos in between turns... at least when they aren't busy yelling and suicide each other.

*If you put 5 classic players and 1 bio player in a bio game, I doubt the bio player would be able to win.
*If you put 1 classic player and 5 bio players in a bio game, the classic player would be able to win AT LEAST 16% of the time.

*If you put 5 classic players and 1 bio player in a classic game, I doubt the bio player would win any games.
*If you put 1 classic player and 5 bio players in a classic game, the classic player would be able to win the games he wasn't asshatted in.

[Big Will E Style]

Bio requires similar strategy as classic, but is more income-based while Classic is card-based (depending on the settings). Chess and Checkers are two completely different games with similar looking platforms. I actually enjoy playing Bio because each game is different and you have to constantly adapt on the fly and because sometimes income-strategy can be fun too. What I don't enjoy is the lack of strategy by 50% of the players, the suicides for tapping someone's income, the constant grudges that ruin games etc. My promotion of players learning on the classic map is not a way for me to feel better than other people ( ), it's a way to improve the overall game play that has fallen off in recent years.

[dustin]

I actually enjoy playing Bio because each game is different and you have to constantly adapt on the fly and because sometimes income-strategy can be fun too.

^^ This!

What I don't enjoy is the lack of strategy by 50% of the players, the suicides for tapping someone's income, the constant grudges that ruin games etc. My promotion of players learning on the classic map is not a way for me to feel better than other people ( ), it's a way to improve the overall game play that has fallen off in recent years.

I don't think the answer to bad strategy is switching the map back to Classic for everyone. It's to promote better strategy awareness in bio.