Luxtoberfest side issues - charting a way forward'

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Re: October 17-19th :: Roman Renaissance

Post by Shockandawe » Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:52 pm

Pointing out the exact questions he's missed goes a long way to helping.

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Re: October 17-19th :: Roman Renaissance

Post by The Silken Knot » Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:56 pm

Okay.

First, I absolutely do not intend to belittle you as a person. I hope you know that, after all these years. You are much more than your opinions on this scarcely-viewed little website. I'm just taking issue with dustin accepting your (out-of-the-loop) opinion over others that are currently more relevant.

Now.

Assuming that you mean I am "a part of" the online community, I do talk to both Rogue and George about their frustration and other ways to express it when it goes over the edge. I'm no longer a moderator, but I do still try to influence Lux for the better occasionally (as we all can, and many do). And frankly, dustin doesn't make it easy these days.

If, however, you're saying that I'm "apart from" the online community, I suspect you haven't picked up that most Lux interaction happens on the tracker these days, not in the forums. I know a cure for that.

Come play!

:D

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Re: October 17-19th :: Roman Renaissance

Post by imapickle » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:03 pm

I played in the tournaments. They werent that bad. The king of the hill style thing is one of the best events we have had in Lux imo. All these crashed servers and such must be always happening when I am not around, because I cant say my quality of life has been greatly affected by them.

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Re: October 17-19th :: Roman Renaissance

Post by dustin » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:03 pm

In the other thread where mnemo asked questions, I thought I responded to them in a quite timely and informative manner. Did I miss some?

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Re: October 17-19th :: Roman Renaissance

Post by Shockandawe » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:04 pm

Then you HAVE to be willing to stand up to them here as well. Say it plain that this type of behavior is not going to be tolerated. Period.

If there were more people doing this and taking the answers that Dustin gives as they come I wouldn't have to be posting like I do.

I can say things that Dustin and Moderators cannot. I do not have to be moderate in my responses and I'm absolutely not going to be.

I am not here to start arguments, but I will absolutely end them when they are buried in verbal garbage. If the argument is presented in a respectful manner and is well thought out you will see no issues from me.

Respect each other and be understanding that any issues that come up may take Dustin a while to fix. He's likely not around 24/7 like most are used to.

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Re: October 17-19th :: Roman Renaissance

Post by Symbiosis » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:28 am

Image

Let's just enjoy our $20 purchase until it finally breaks forever and we all ride off into various sunsets

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Re: October 17-19th :: Roman Renaissance

Post by The Silken Knot » Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:31 pm

Here here!

:smt058

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Re: October 17-19th :: Roman Renaissance

Post by Centrico » Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:36 pm

Symbiosis wrote:Image

Let's just enjoy our $20 purchase until it finally breaks forever and we all ride off into various sunsets
When that day comes my $10k offer stands to Dustin, I will buy it from him and let you'ins, the community run it like the Lord of the Flies!

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Re: October 17-19th :: Roman Renaissance

Post by Big Will E Style » Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:34 pm

George and Rogue are trolls and the core problem with Lux. You can't reason with people like them. Why try?

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Re: October 17-19th :: Roman Renaissance

Post by velvateen » Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:42 pm

Are you kidding if Trump was running Lux fest we'd have tournaments every day and and a bunch of different rooms with all kinds of games going on; people betting on each other and shit. But, dont worry, i had fun. Not bad....for a liberal.

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Re: October 17-19th :: Roman Renaissance

Post by The Silken Knot » Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:44 pm

:smt058

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Re: October 17-19th :: Roman Renaissance

Post by Lantern » Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:24 am

Don't bring me into this conversation!
LOL
dustin wrote:Image

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Re: October 17-19th :: Roman Renaissance

Post by mnemosyne » Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:19 am

go away to the windy apple for a couple days, and look what happens!

if ever there was a thread the begs to be split, it would be this one . . . gfips, would you be so kind as to do the honors?

/me humbly recommends calling the new thread 'for the sake of argument: charting a way forward'

there are a lot of people who are upset (both in the angry and sad sense of the word), have hurt feelings, have a sense of disappointment, etc. dwindling numbers and a loss of spirit only exacerbate the underlying issues. this is a community in distress, and the solution does not lie with beating around the bush, and/or attacking each other; that is what is happening now. what we need is an open, honest, and heartfelt discussion about the state of things, and finding, then enacting affirming paths forward. i have my own ideas, as many others most likely do, but i am not interested in appending them to a thread about the roman renaissance tournament if you catch my drift.

warmly,

m

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Re: October 17-19th :: Roman Renaissance

Post by Centrico » Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:15 am

mnemosyne wrote:go away to the windy apple for a couple days, and look what happens!

if ever there was a thread the begs to be split, it would be this one . . . gfips, would you be so kind as to do the honors?

/me humbly recommends calling the new thread 'for the sake of argument: charting a way forward'

there are a lot of people who are upset (both in the angry and sad sense of the word), have hurt feelings, have a sense of disappointment, etc. dwindling numbers and a loss of spirit only exacerbate the underlying issues. this is a community in distress, and the solution does not lie with beating around the bush, and/or attacking each other; that is what is happening now. what we need is an open, honest, and heartfelt discussion about the state of things, and finding, then enacting affirming paths forward. i have my own ideas, as many others most likely do, but i am not interested in appending them to a thread about the roman renaissance tournament if you catch my drift.

warmly,

m

:catrun

/me 2nd's the notion

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Luxtoberfest side issues - charting a way forward

Post by GFips » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:03 am

Hi everybody,

I have watched this side-discussion for a while. But i think it is really time now to separate this from the Luxtoberfest Roman Tournament thread.
The tournament thread is dedicated to the tournament pariticipients and winners. Nevertheless i do not want to delete these posts. I still have the hope that we can lead this into a constructive way to chart forward.



Mnemosyne wrote:what we need is an open, honest, and heartfelt discussion about the state of things, and finding, then enacting affirming paths forward.


:smt023 (/me fully agrees. well said! Thank you mnemo! I hope you present us your ideas here ...)

I will move the sidediscussions to this thread as they are, but please: do let not this end in a battle between different "haters" just for the sake of discussion. Please try to keep out personal feelings as far as possible. Discuss in a objective way. Hate speech is no solution and will not be tolerated! Don't insult others, try to move forward and provide solutions instead of plain and senseless negativity. But please also accept that not everything can be realized. We still have to Keep in mind the amount of players around and the capacities/possibilities of volunteers and sillysoft. Please keep your demands realistic! We need paths forward and not backward.

If things can be improved, it will be good for us all. I can understand the frustration, that some players have and we all said sureley something in the heat of the moment we might regret later. But if you are not interested in really improving things and your only intention is to get rid of your frustrations, then better take it to pm or do it somewhere else.

We are a great community. Please keep respect for each other.
And Yes - it would be really great to see you, shock (and all the others) back on the battle-field! I hope to see you all soon again in a game!

GFips

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Re: Luxtoberfest side issues - charting a way forward'

Post by Marauder » Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:20 pm

I don't mean for this to come across as negative, but haven't we already went over this a good 50 times or so over the last 3 or 4 years? No offense, but at some point it has to set in that this current state is what online Lux is and what online Lux will be if it continues to exist at all. Take it or leave it.

Improving the overall sentiment of the community that remains is a worthwhile and just cause, but the remaining community needs a reality check. If you continually complain about what you want Lux to be and not accept it for what it is then that complaining becomes the only thing left. Self fulfilling prophecy and all that.

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Re: Luxtoberfest side issues - charting a way forward'

Post by The Silken Knot » Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:02 pm

At the risk (!) of repeating myself....

Come play, Mara!

:smt054

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Re: Luxtoberfest side issues - charting a way forward'

Post by GFips » Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:27 am

Mara, I agree. But if people want to argue about game issues, that's always fine and can always be productive (just getting into personality/character disputes doesn't go and never did go anywhere useful and should be kept out). I did not want to delete the posts, so I split them off and try to direct the discussion in a constructive way at least (hope dies last).

And yes: :-P COME AND PLAY MARA! :-P Would be a joy for me to see you back soon!

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Re: Luxtoberfest side issues - charting a way forward'

Post by mnemosyne » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:20 pm

in the spirit of an open and honest discussion, i am writing to share a few observations . . .

1. dustin has created a great online game (a series of games, actually), and we have all enjoyed countless hours of fun with it. as others have observed, i have gotten much more than my money's worth. we appreciate you for that alone, dustin.

2. the game has a few flaws, and nobody is doing much about that anymore. para was working to address some of those bugs, but he is no longer with us, so they continue to persist.

3. dustin is the owner of the game, and is not legally or ethically required to manage the day to day operations. shock, of course, is totally right on this front. dustin has a life outside of lux, and is working on several other initiatives, so to expect him to be here every day to fix crashed rooms, or run tournaments is an unfair expectation and is simply not going to happen.

4. that being said, dustin, with all due respect, you created a sense of rising and ultimately false expectations by promising a few months ago during our 'transition from para' time that you would be a more active manager of the day to day operations of lux. that simply has not happened. consequently, there are a lot of people who are upset with you because of this, and it dredged up the same feelings of frustration that ultimately led to para (and others, including the mod squad) to mutiny, and we all know how that ended up. you are the creator, and we respect you for that. you are the owner, and we respect you for that. you are not, however, a very good manager . . . while we understand that you have other things to do, and we respect your right to do so, try to avoid creating more frustration by promising things that ultimately go unfulfilled.

5. lux would benefit tremendously from a more active manager while you are not here. while i have never been an apologist for para, and i politely disagreed with several of his initiatives and methods, he ran a pretty tight ship, and it was hard not to be impressed. he provided stable hosts, ran fantastic tournaments, and seemed to be omnipresent (like the eye of osiris in his apropos avatar) to manage the day to day operations of lux. he was a builder of community, with a hearty 'eya, a nice triple malt scotch, and bowl of pistachios. he managed the troublemakers justly and efficiently. he made the place feel like an episode of 'cheers.' i miss his presence, as many of us do. he was also, in the end, a destroyer of community because he felt, rightly or wrongly, underappreciated and undercompensated for all of his work. he poisoned the well for many luxers, and its one of the reasons the community is where it is today. many of the luxers who remain are still jaded because of his interventions, and/or the way he was treated, and/or because they miss his day to day management skills.

6. i think you realized that you did not want to be a manager, and the loss of para created a significant vacuum for lux. you attempted to address that with two misguided appointments. making stelee, bless her heart, a de facto super mod was a mistake from the very start. she was one of the most overdramatic players on lux (see, e.g., her wars with controleola, for which she received multiple time outs). she was frequently afk, and flipped the board too often. in short, she did not have the skills, attention, relationships, or disposition to do a good job in this position. nevertheless, you appointed her totally out of the blue with no input from the community. it was a decision made by someone who did not have their pulse on the community. the method and result were pretty much a disaster and the misstep further alienated many players.

perhaps not learning from the mistake, you did the same thing when you appointed llux llama. now, i happen to like the llama a lot. she has a good heart and much better disposition than stelee. however, you again made the appointment with no input from the community. llama had not been an active player for years, and to throw her into the role of managing the day to day operations of game play, especially when so many people had bitter post-para, post-stelee feelings was a recipe for failure (and we were not 'post-para' yet b/c he continued to lurk creating a whole other set of issues). honestly, i am not sure anybody could have succeeded in the toxic environment that was lux at that point. in my estimation, she was placed in a no-win situation.

so, after back to back failures, you said you would step to the plate and become more active in lux. that happened for a little bit, but then you moved on to other things. that only created more bitterness because you created rising expectations that you did not fulfill. for many, it felt disingenuous . . . you only stepped back in temporarily to clean up lux, and try to create some semblance of community to make lux seem more appealing for your steam and humble bundle launches. when those did not yield a massive influx of new players, you stepped away again, and many people felt like they were being used to monetize lux, not for the good of the game itself.

7. in the absence of managers, we do have a mod squad, but they are mostly afk, and you are doing nothing to address that. guillerme is gone completely as far as i can tell. owned's great contribution to the community over the last year or so was to show up once to lock a thread about para, promise he would be more active, then disappear entirely yet again. bean, with whom i feel a resonance and is someone who is a good person as far as i can tell, is not well suited for the job. he is frequently afk, and refuses to step foot in a bio room (warranted, or not) which is pretty much where all the game action is these days. we need mods who actually patrol rooms, at least from time to time, where the remaining players are. that leaves gfips to pretty much run the whole show, and that is an unfair burden on him. gfips, we sincerely appreciate all you have done and continue to do for our community, but you need help!

in short, dustin, in the absence of a 'manager' like para, you need to enact a major overhaul of the mod squad. the inactive and/or disengaged mods (i.e. everyone but gfips) need to be replaced with active, and even keeled luxers/moderators.

8. people need to stop trashing each other in game play and esp. in the fora. i cherish both george and rogue monk both as players and community members. every community benefits from gadflies and critics, even if you do not like their criticisms (well founded or not). george is more direct and brash, rogue is more subtle and funny (i am sorry, but the infamous 'dustin's house' picture, for which he was banned, was funny, but it came at the wrong time when you were feeling both sensitive and under assault). naraku is another incisive critic who has the good of the community at heart (see, e.g. the many maps he has created *for free* not to mention his always hilarious graphic lux novels). i miss having him in games tremendously, and wish he did not feel so alienated by the state of affairs. their criticisms and frustrations are well founded, in my estimation, even if they are more roundabout and biting than you may like.

9. i value their contributions more than i do trolls in the fora because they actually show up from time to time in games (well, not so much naraku anymore, regretfully) in an attempt to rebuild some sense of community. i am not naming any names here, but you and we know who you are. the most laughable thing in their commentary is that they feel like they have their fingers on the pulse of the community, and understand why things are the way they are today. the best window into lux's current state of affairs is within the chat in game play, not in the fora; that's where are the vital and real conversations are taking place. the vast majority of lux's current online players do not even wander into the fora. your outside, disengaged commentary is out of touch, not helpful, and not wanted. if you really cared about the community, you would show up and play games on occasion, and model positive behavior for current and new players. sniping from the outside is not helpful at all, and one wonders why you even bother. tsk's points here are very well taken.

10. finally, in the spirit of openness, luxtoberfest was a disappointment compared to years past. its a pity because it was always the crowing event of the year for lux. we appreciate the fact that something was done, but it suffered by comparison, and now will only add additional fodder for the critics. dustin, we know that your heart was not in it, and you have better things to do and are probably tired of the seemingly endless criticisms (many of us empathize!), but lux has the potential to be something better than it is right now (maybe not regain its past glory, but assuredly better than it is now). reconfiguring the mod squad, and finding and compensating the right manager to run the day to day operations would be steps in the right direction. as i have mentioned elsewhere, i would not be opposed to bringing back para under the right conditions for both sides, but that ship may have already sailed. alternatively, gfips and tsk would do a nice job in that role, as well, but i am not sure that they could be so enticed. if you do move in that needed direction, i encourage you to consult with the community before making final decisions.

respectfully,

m

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Re: Luxtoberfest side issues - charting a way forward'

Post by Centrico » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:56 pm

Let me say I read every word of what Nemo had to say and while I believe it is all based in reality I wish to add a few things.

A game like this is a labor of love.

For something to be a labor of love it needs to continue that way, with labor, and love.

Dustin's presence and patience with all the critics jabbing and questioning his sincerity, in my mind OVERWHELMINGLY proves the love component is absolutely present. That being said, the labor is lacking...

The reality is, an individual such as Dustin who creates a wonderful thing like Lux, which takes creative ability, vision, and determination, is obviously capable of more greatness.

Greatness takes time and guarantees that past accomplishments don't get the attention we were once able to give them.

This place is not a cash cow, nor did Dustin ever treat it that way. Anyone that whines and bickers that they are being used to turn Lux into a cash machine is out of touch with reality. If Dustin really wanted to monetize this place the forums would have ads, the game would have consumables, and we'd be paying monthly fees. Hell, I offered to pay monthly fees to advance the development around this place.

If Dustin tomorrow started charging $5, $10, $20, or more a month I would gladly pay-for-play and sponsor others as well....

I am not proposing this, I am making the point that there is money to be made, but due to Dustin's love of this place he hasn't exploited it.

If I were Dustin, and I am not, I would pull TSK, Nemo, Dangerous Beans, GFIPS, Red Beard, George, etc. into a discussion for advice to organize new mods, and a MATRIX of individuals with the ability to reboot servers. This community has HELD ITSELF together in spite of all the craziness over the years, hell, many of us have spent 1/3rd of our lives in this place.

I feel the community could run itself effectively, and I am willing to put my money where my mouth is to back it up. I'd be willing to discuss terms with Dustin to compensate him for Lux and then let it thrive or fail on its own.

While Dustin's love has always been and will likely always be with this place, his labor is likely, for good cause, focused elsewhere. Dustin, if you are interested in selling Lux to the community let me know, if not then good luck, and thanks for creating something around which a great community can thrive, jive, and 'survive'.

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Re: Luxtoberfest side issues - charting a way forward'

Post by dustin » Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:47 pm

mnemosyne wrote:in the spirit of an open and honest discussion, i am writing to share a few observations . . .
Thank you very much mnemo. I think you accurately described many things. I really appreciate the amazing spirit of all the luxers who care so much about this place, and strive to help it. I agree with your suggestions going forward. Lux could use a more hands-on community manager / tournament host. I have been unsuccessful in establishing one that worked out. In some ways para was a very appropriate person. I regret how things went down with him. I welcome the community to advise me on who could suit the role, or how to go about creating it.

:smt109

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Re: Luxtoberfest side issues - charting a way forward'

Post by Dangerous Beans » Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:21 pm

I'm not going to offer my opinion on this matter, as everyone in this discussion including me has previously done so multiple times...




















but I do enjoy reading threads on stuff Shock responds to, 'cuz I know he only logs in to argue. :smt044

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Re: Luxtoberfest side issues - charting a way forward'

Post by Centrico » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:16 pm

Dangerous Beans wrote:I'm not going to offer my opinion on this matter, as everyone in this discussion including me has previously done so multiple times...


but I do enjoy reading threads on stuff Shock responds to, 'cuz I know he only logs in to argue. :smt044

LOL

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Re: Luxtoberfest side issues - charting a way forward'

Post by n00less cluebie » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:25 pm

Im writing in Mnemo for President on November 8!!! :smt109 :smt109 :smt109

If only we could entice Meron to come back and manage Lux. That's the personality you need....

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Re: Luxtoberfest side issues - charting a way forward'

Post by Shockandawe » Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:00 am

Couple of things I'm going to address here.

Nice to see this discussion continuing with a more grounded tone. Please continue with this.

First off Mara is correct. There is no need to repeat the same old discussions again (bio, negativity in game, etc.) so try to focus any suggestions or thoughts forward.

Mnemo: Great post. Very nicely laid out and explained. :smt023

You hit on some great ideas with a couple I would like to narrow in on a bit.

Namely the activity of the mod squad, community management, and how this all relates back to when para controlled things. This is vital to the situation the community finds itself in.

I don't think that para's ultimate goal was ever to purely be a community manager or organizer. They were stepping stones into his ultimate goal of some sort of complete takeover. While he may have made the game and servers much better, in the process he greatly eroded the community itself. Something I feared from the beginning. By taking control of policing every aspect of the game himself he largely defanged the modsquad members. They were, quite honestly, no longer needed. This is why we're seeing a seemingly weak mod team.

Now that they are needed there is no strong foundation for the mods to operate from. The mods forgot how much of a commitment it was to be able to affectively do the job. You could say that the modsquad lacks the labor as you've compared to Dustin.

You could apply the same rule to player hosts as well. To put it simply Para destroyed the pillars of the community. Rebuilding is no easy feat.


I would address the "trolls" as you seem to be calling me by expanding on what I stated above. You wouldn't see myself and especially hoodie or mara posting if we didn't see a need to be doing it.

Do you really want these recent posts from George, Rogue, and Naraku to be what this community represents? Because these are the posts that do.

The community MUST stand up to these kinds of posts and I've yet to see anyone do it. That they simply play the game is no excuse for such behavior. Period.


Dustin - It's nice to see that you acknowledge that you haven't fulfilled the promises or goals you set forth earlier. Here's what I think you do moving forward.

As mnemo suggested. You need a community manager and tournament organizer. These should be two seperate positions held by two people.

You should be the one to select the propects to fill this position. Maybe a short questionaire or interview process to get a better feel for those you want. Then I would give the community the final decision on your choice. Make sure that the people you choose have a plan for moving forward.

It would appear as though the mod squad needs a reboot. A larger than normal mod squad might be the best option to ensure that there is more control within the community. If it takes 10 people to properly moderate the community then don't be afraid to do it.

Take some of the burden you have and give the community back the power to influence itself that it has long lacked. If things move in the wrong direction you can always guide it back. I don't see these people doing to you what para did.

A strong community makes for a strong foundation and a much more enjoyable environment.

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Re: Luxtoberfest side issues - charting a way forward'

Post by mnemosyne » Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:56 am

i appreciate all of the commentary in this thread. thanks to everyone who is contributing (including dustin himself)!

shock, your points are all well taken. in general, it is so refreshing to have and read an open and affirming conversation instead of throwing barbs at each other.

i do not condone negative commentary under any circumstances, i was just trying to validate the feelings behind some of it. its important that we identify the underlying issues before we can address them and move forward together. i am certainly no saint and have been guilty of my fair share of snarky comments based on poorly articulated frustrations, and i assuredly do not have the/any answers. as you rightly point out, it takes a long time for a community to heal and rebuild when it has been damaged and continues to wallow in personal attacks. i, for one, pledge my sincere efforts toward this end making this a friendly, fun, and welcoming place, and i know a lot of others feel the same way. there are some great people in this community, most of whom i treasure (including yourself).

i encourage luxers who have helpful ideas, specific suggestions, and positive contributions to offer them here, or pm dustin if you aren't comfortable sharing them publicly. i believe that he is all ears b/c this is his baby, and i am sure it is painful to see it suffer (additionally, its a natural response of many if not most living things to withdraw when attacked, so i empathize; and you wonder why i turtle so much, lol).

for now . . . baby steps are so very much appreciated! dangerous beans was hosting some nice winner's picks games tonight (yay!). and although i was never much of a classicist (which is why it is so ironic that i won the classic luxtoberfest contest, lol; thx for the cool and apropos yin/yang bling btw, dustin!), i like the idea someone suggested earlier of shutting down the other rooms and just running a classic only tracker at specified times and/or days. maybe an expanded mod squad can move forward with that initiative. that might lure some of our much needed and sorely missed vets back, especially if there was a predictable schedule and guaranteed fh games with respectable players. besides, sometimes when a community is in crisis, the answer is to burn/destroy all of the baggage and get back to your roots (i just saw 'the encounter' on broadway in nyc this week; it was one of the main tropes of the performance, and it moved me deeply).

warmly,

m

:catrun

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RogueMonk
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Re: Luxtoberfest side issues - charting a way forward'

Post by RogueMonk » Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:23 pm

Shockandawe wrote:Do you really want these recent posts from George, Rogue, and Naraku to be what this community represents? Because these are the posts that do.[/b]

The community MUST stand up to these kinds of posts and I've yet to see anyone do it. That they simply play the game is no excuse for such behavior. Period.


This is unnecessarily inflammatory. I have resisted the urge to reply until now, because the community MUST stand up to your bogus over-generalization. I have posted twice in this thread (now three times); both times they were pictures illustrating in a playful way that points were being missed. You're building a straw man here. I'm sure you will have some long self-righteous response to this post too. I won't be replying except for this:

Image

So every time you press "submit" in the future, remember yoda and his hand. That's my reply to you.






Mnemo - I apologize to you and (others) for detracting from the "community in this thread" (as you said it). I felt that the unbridled rhetoric needed a response, especially given the meager two posts I made in the thread (neither of them all that tough). Such diarrea-of-the mouth needed to be challenged. Don't worry, I won't detract further with this guy. Yoda has my back! Thanks, Mnemo. :smt058

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Shockandawe
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Re: Luxtoberfest side issues - charting a way forward'

Post by Shockandawe » Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:24 pm

A recent forum ban and the mods having to come in to clean up some of your posts due to their content says otherwise.

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Symbiosis
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Re: Luxtoberfest side issues - charting a way forward'

Post by Symbiosis » Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:32 pm

I kind of endorse what Mara said. I really don't think the app merits this much discussion (full disclosure, this thread is TL; and I mostly DR). It is what it is and it's not going to change, so we're in the take it or leave it zone. Taking it while complaining is just self-indulgent. But, Shock, pointing to para as the reason the community has eroded is self-serving revisionist history which is just as unhelpful. We should check our agendas at the door before we start accusing others of having an ax to grind.

But again, I'm sitting here typing in this asinine and fruitless message board topic instead of writing the next great American novel, damnit.

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The Silken Knot
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Re: Luxtoberfest side issues - charting a way forward'

Post by The Silken Knot » Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:38 pm

The "foe" list is the forums equivalent of /mute. In case anyone is interested.

:smt077

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