Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Game of universal domination. New dice available free upon request.
User avatar
The Silken Knot
Lux Tiki Drinker
Posts: 5572
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:29 pm

Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by The Silken Knot » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:47 pm

Re: Moderation Log
by Bean » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:02 am

Donald Trump for 3 days; Ignored a moderator asking about his sexist winning message.
So, I find this very confusing. He's not banned for having a sexist winning message. He's banned for ignoring you and hurting your feelings? Gosh, moderating is a whole new world these days!

PS-- gypsymystyc has had a series of not just sexist but obscene win messages, for a number of MONTHS. And I've seen you in the room when they came up plenty of times. It might be helpful if there were some objective criteria here. Again, unless the ban is not an objection to the message, but to the lack of kowtowing...

:panic:

User avatar
RogueMonk
Lux Addict
Posts: 798
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:10 pm

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by RogueMonk » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:59 pm

The Silken Knot wrote:It might be helpful if there were some objective criteria here.

:panic:
Image

User avatar
n00less cluebie
Lux Cantor
Posts: 8369
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:55 am
Location: At the Official Clown Reference Librarian Desk--'All the answers you weren't looking for.'
Contact:

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by n00less cluebie » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:56 pm

Image

P.s. Anyone who dislikes strawberry shortcake is OBJECTIVELY wrong

User avatar
GFips
Lux Moderator
Lux Moderator
Posts: 789
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:01 pm

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by GFips » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:30 am

Thank you TSK for your concerns. I do not want to speak for Bean, but to clear in general:

We have given rules, which every player has to accept:

Lux rules
1. Use language appropriate for a friendly board game; no excessive profanity or abusive language in game chat or your winning message.
2. No hate speech. Attacks or insults based on skin color, race, religion, sex, nationality, or sexual orientation, etc., are strictly prohibited.
...


If you use language in chat or in your winning message that violates the rules here, that will usually get you suspended. The problem is that winning messages are only shown for a short time and cannot be proofen in the reports. Nevertheless i ask everybody to report players that use inappropriate winning messages. We will check this then.

I myself usually tell people if their winning message is not ok and ask them to change it. In most cases they agree and problem is solved. I personaly told "Donald Trump" before to do so, as his winning message is clearly sexist and might violate others feelings even if it should be meant as some kind of satire. Obviously he did not and Bean saw him still using similar Messages the next day. As far as I interprete this suspension, Bean demanded him again, to change it and he did refuse to do so. So he got a clear warning with a 3 days Suspension now. For sure you can ignore mods, but if you violate rules and ignore mods asking you to abstain from still using a winning message violating the rules here, you cannot complain about a suspension. I think it is obvious and clear that the suspension is for still using sexist winning messages after being warned. It is a 3 day suspension meant as warning for a single offense. He is welcomed to come back after these 3 days and play with a new winning message.

Concerning Gypsymystic's winning Messages: They were also not tolerated. Gypsymystic was also suspended by Centrico for 3 days (happened already on 31.12.2016 - Centrico just forgot to post the suspension here in the forums). But he was also warned and I have not seen him using them anymore since that time :-)

So I please everybody: please use appropriate language in chat, forums and winning messages. It is not only a game for adults. Please think about, what you would think, if your children would be confronted with such language. We might also have children around playing.
Even if something is meant as "joke" accept that especially "jokes" on race, religion, sex, nationality can hurt others feelings and will also get you suspended.

If a suspended player feels he got treated wrong in any case, he himself should directly contact a mod or sillysoft by pm or by mail. But don't troll around! :smt021

User avatar
n00less cluebie
Lux Cantor
Posts: 8369
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:55 am
Location: At the Official Clown Reference Librarian Desk--'All the answers you weren't looking for.'
Contact:

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by n00less cluebie » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:23 am


User avatar
RogueMonk
Lux Addict
Posts: 798
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:10 pm

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by RogueMonk » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:58 pm

GFips wrote: We have given rules, which every player has to accept:

Lux rules
1. Use language appropriate for a friendly board game; no excessive profanity or abusive language in game chat or your winning message.
2. No hate speech. Attacks or insults based on skin color, race, religion, sex, nationality, or sexual orientation, etc., are strictly prohibited.
...
/me looks for the rule about ignoring a moderator.

Image

User avatar
The Silken Knot
Lux Tiki Drinker
Posts: 5572
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:29 pm

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by The Silken Knot » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:10 pm

Thanks, GFips. I do know that Centrico suspended gypsymystyc for three days... after many, many months of those winning messages... which had previously been seen by moderators many, many times. (Thank you, Centrico.) Now if only you all can do something about his perpetual afk-ness, which surely rivals foot fault's record!

Rogue Monk's reply is actually closer to answering my actual post. bean's suspension notice in the Moderation Log makes it seem that the suspension was a result of Donald Trump ignoring him (bean), rather than for using a non-compliant win message. This is not the first time this has been the case. I would suggest that bean would be more effective as a moderator if he just addressed the actual reason for the suspension in the Log, rather than making his suspensions seem like personal vendettas for "being ignored".

:D

User avatar
n00less cluebie
Lux Cantor
Posts: 8369
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:55 am
Location: At the Official Clown Reference Librarian Desk--'All the answers you weren't looking for.'
Contact:

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by n00less cluebie » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:04 pm

My understanding would be that the offense was in the winning message. Bean might have overlooked the offense if the defendant responded to the charge, but with no response forthcoming it would seem Bean felt obligated to apply the rule

User avatar
Dangerous Beans
oO0-0Oo-oO0-0Oo
Posts: 1117
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:15 pm
Location: SLEEPY (MICRO NATION OF)
Contact:

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by Dangerous Beans » Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:47 am

Sooo what was this winning message?

:smt017

and who lost to that guy?

:lol:

User avatar
Symbiosis
Lux Solicitor
Posts: 910
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:14 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by Symbiosis » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:17 am

Code: Select all

/i Hillary Clinton

User avatar
dustin
Lux Creator
Lux Creator
Posts: 10296
Joined: Thu May 15, 2003 2:01 am
Location: Cascadia
Contact:

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by dustin » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:36 pm

Donald Trump for 3 days; for an obscene / sexist winning message, and ignoring a moderator inquiring about it

Slightly different phrasing that expresses the offense more clearly

User avatar
Carl Spackler
Lux Greenskeeper
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:22 pm

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by Carl Spackler » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:59 pm

Just to clarify, I believe that Gypsy's winning message referred to "getting banged in the pooper", which would make it offensive but not sexist, no? Who knows, I could just be splitting (butt) hairs here....... Carry on.

User avatar
mnemosyne
titaness
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:30 am
Location: beyond the looking glass

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by mnemosyne » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:58 pm

carl raises an important point! in fact, i am not sure how getting "banged in the pooper" could be deemed offensive by anyone, save the religious right (given the growing popularity of a&*l sex and all). next thing you know, we will be banning dr. thorvaldt for his golden d*ldo and b%ttplug references! :smt103

indeed, its not even humanistic! i suppose it could refer to any mammal with a "pooper" and as i read lux rules, there does not seem to be a rule against beastiality.

now, some may argue that his other winning message, getting banged in the "cooter" was a touch more sexist, but that could simply refer to a certain adorable garage mechanic from 'dukes of hazard,' and i am pretty sure cooter wouldn't mind getting 'banged' by daisy, or anybody else for that matter (save, perhaps, jefferson davis "boss" hogg, although the boss does seem to enjoy his cigars like a certain former u.s. president, william jefferson clinton, and we all know how sexy those are!).

as guitar legend nigel tufnel intuitively asked: "well, so what? what's wrong with being sexy?!"


♪♫ Just two good ole boys,
Wouldn't change if they could.
Fightin' the system like two modern day Robin Hoods ♪♫

[Yeeeeee-Hawwww]

:catrun

(edited: 'dukes of hazard' duh!)
Last edited by mnemosyne on Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
mnemosyne
titaness
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:30 am
Location: beyond the looking glass

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by mnemosyne » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:17 pm

now, if bean could ban @realdonaldtrump for sexism, targeting, trolling, and general asshattery, that would be the real feat! and it would save ol' mnemo from having to go into cryostasis for four years!

the question is: can soma get to 1000 games before friday? i am not going to have a very restful four year slumber if that is not the case [/me bans red sharpies for double negatives while frozen]. can you help an ocd luxer out?!

rip van m . . .

:catrun

User avatar
Bean
Lux Moderator
Lux Moderator
Posts: 707
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:47 pm

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by Bean » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:25 pm

/me humbly apologizes for lack of perspicuity. refund check in the mail...

I also followed up with Gyps about his message after learning that folks were offended. I did not see it many times in the "months" that someone mentioned. As in the chat during the original report about it, gyps seemed interested in removing the offense.

Verbal abuse, triggering, trolling, and various other schoolyard uglinesses are likely a major factor in new player retention and generally the hostile environment that obtains in Lux more often than we all probably would like. TSK and others have helped set my own agenda by expressing themselves about some things. Enter Donald Trump (the player), who had an apparently offensive winning message, and then played the "ignore the mod" card when approached about it in chat.

Ignoring anyone making a good faith effort at communication is ethically marginal at best, is most certainly tactically shortsighted when it comes to a volunteer moderator, and in this case, as nooless speculated, triggered my move to apply the rule without benefit of conversation. A three day ban offers another message attempt and a chance to move forward on the issue for Donald Trump.

Two other concerns raised, that there might be some helpful objective standards to be had, and that a volunteer moderator might object to recalcitrance in some objectionable way are duly noted. That's all I am willing to offer. To be clear, unlike Fips, I am not thanking anyone for raising these issues. I sort of feel they lack enough value to justify the verbiage here devoted to them. At the same time, with all the labor saving going on in this epoch, verbiage is all we got! Speak out!

Also, while my heart is against this huge waste of time, I still have some kernel of devotion in my mind for the semblance of political protest in our semblance of a political community. /me hugs TSK and Monk and lets them know he is confident their real life political action and communication is equally engaged and tenacious. Sorry for being annoyed at your buzzing.

Also, when the bees stop buzzing, what will become of all the corn and soybeans?!

User avatar
Bean
Lux Moderator
Lux Moderator
Posts: 707
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:47 pm

judginess and judgment

Post by Bean » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:37 pm

Lux and its governance are much more anarchic than common complaints I have seen over time seem to assume. I think of it as a kind of "civilized anarchy" in the way that colleges and universities are (acc. to Gordon Graham in his book, Politics in its Place: a study of six ideologies, Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1986.) The difference is there is much less committee work and much less accountability. It is a private space with a lot of "judgment" and "do your best" required. Failure to contain ugliness or to fully "objective-ize" the running of the place has no higher jurisdiction than Dustin himself, and, while he is reasonable check (reasonable enough for an anarchy), the fact remains this place is not a state. The cops are volunteers. The cops are dealing with small time stuff compared to real cops. Can we spite while we smite? Yes. Can folks object? Yes. Can we just smile and say, "sorry." yes.

User avatar
RogueMonk
Lux Addict
Posts: 798
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:10 pm

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by RogueMonk » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:49 pm

Image

User avatar
Symbiosis
Lux Solicitor
Posts: 910
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:14 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by Symbiosis » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:06 pm

Bean you really have to work on making your point clearly and concisely.
a major factor in new player retention
Oh yeah, doin great guys.

User avatar
n00less cluebie
Lux Cantor
Posts: 8369
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:55 am
Location: At the Official Clown Reference Librarian Desk--'All the answers you weren't looking for.'
Contact:

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by n00less cluebie » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:27 pm

Tl;dr

User avatar
Dangerous Beans
oO0-0Oo-oO0-0Oo
Posts: 1117
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:15 pm
Location: SLEEPY (MICRO NATION OF)
Contact:

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by Dangerous Beans » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:20 pm

Bean wrote: Verbal abuse, triggering, trolling, and various other schoolyard uglinesses are likely a major factor in new player retention and generally the hostile environment that obtains in Lux more often than we all probably would like.
Allow me...
Bean wrote: Bio is a major factor in new player retention and generally the hostile environment that obtains in Lux more often than we all probably would like.
Lets not avoid the real issue here folks.

User avatar
Bean
Lux Moderator
Lux Moderator
Posts: 707
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:47 pm

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by Bean » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:35 pm

I have not noticed much worse in bio than in IRE. There are more games, and so more opportunity to disappoint each other, perhaps. There seem to be more players who make a habit of complaining/verbally assaulting whomever disappoints them, but perhaps that's because the tantrum throwers in IRE just don't chat much (they suicide and skulk off).

I might like to see map variety, and I advocate for it all the time, but the abuse is a separate issue. If Dustin woke tomorrow and decided to host only a different map every day of each month, we'd all be playing in that map each day and our performance on basic human respect and dignity would be similar to what it is now. Not all bad, but we can still improve a good deal.

User avatar
mnemosyne
titaness
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:30 am
Location: beyond the looking glass

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by mnemosyne » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:29 am

/me humbly proposes a dedicated silent lux/bio room.

there are several strong personalities on lux, and chat only provides them with a platform for their arrogance and inherently confrontational styles (indeed, it in many ways exacerbates them). a lot of us are tired of it, and muting one player only goes so far. give us an alternative! we used to run silent rooms for tournaments in the way back . . .

no more treaties, no more verbal abuse, no more need to police chat, no more reports (except for targeting, i suppose), no more need to waste time in the fora haggling over interpretations of and appropriate responses to what the word 'is' 'is'.

if people wanna chat and/or possibly open themselves up to verbal abuse, they can go to the chat room (let's call it the 'hothead' room), and if they just aren't feeling it, they can go to the silent room and just focus on the game. i know: we should have motion picture ratings of rooms like the mpaa: the hothead room, the 'friendly chat' room, the silent room . . . lol :lol:

besides, let's face it: table talk :smt021 was always uncool in risk!

:llama

(i suppose we have to ban winning messages, too, but let's leave that one for another day) :panic:

User avatar
n00less cluebie
Lux Cantor
Posts: 8369
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:55 am
Location: At the Official Clown Reference Librarian Desk--'All the answers you weren't looking for.'
Contact:

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by n00less cluebie » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:40 am

Are we cool, nemo?

User avatar
RogueMonk
Lux Addict
Posts: 798
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:10 pm

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by RogueMonk » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:31 am

mnemosyne wrote:/me humbly proposes a dedicated silent lux/bio room.

there are several strong personalities on lux, and chat only provides them with a platform for their arrogance and inherently confrontational styles (indeed, it in many ways exacerbates them). a lot of us are tired of it, and muting one player only goes so far. give us an alternative! we used to run silent rooms for tournaments in the way back . . .

no more treaties, no more verbal abuse, no more need to police chat, no more reports (except for targeting, i suppose), no more need to waste time in the fora haggling over interpretations of and appropriate responses to what the word 'is' 'is'.

if people wanna chat and/or possibly open themselves up to verbal abuse, they can go to the chat room (let's call it the 'hothead' room), and if they just aren't feeling it, they can go to the silent room and just focus on the game. i know: we should have motion picture ratings of rooms like the mpaa: the hothead room, the 'friendly chat' room, the silent room . . . lol :lol:

besides, let's face it: table talk :smt021 was always uncool in risk!

:llama

(i suppose we have to ban winning messages, too, but let's leave that one for another day) :panic:


Image

FIFY

User avatar
Dangerous Beans
oO0-0Oo-oO0-0Oo
Posts: 1117
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:15 pm
Location: SLEEPY (MICRO NATION OF)
Contact:

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by Dangerous Beans » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:17 pm

Bean wrote: If Dustin woke tomorrow and decided to host only a different map every day of each month, we'd all be playing in that map each day and our performance on basic human respect and dignity would be similar to what it is now. Not all bad, but we can still improve a good deal.
Allow me...
Bean wrote: If Dustin woke tomorrow and decided to host only a different map every day of each month, we'd all be playing in that map each day but a lot of the bio and IRE asshats would leave and our performance on basic human respect and dignity would improve to what it is now, and new players would have a chance to learn the game at a higher level than asshatting.
Bio sucks.

User avatar
n00less cluebie
Lux Cantor
Posts: 8369
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:55 am
Location: At the Official Clown Reference Librarian Desk--'All the answers you weren't looking for.'
Contact:

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by n00less cluebie » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:55 pm

(HARMLESS) BEAN VS DANGEROUS BEAN CAGE MATCH!!!!!

Image
Dayyyyummmmmmnnn son!

User avatar
Symbiosis
Lux Solicitor
Posts: 910
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:14 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by Symbiosis » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:57 pm

Bio does suck and hurts the culture, and certainly contributed to the decline in active players (among other things).

The map doesn't do enough to reward thinking ahead, basically. RAW roulette.

User avatar
The Silken Knot
Lux Tiki Drinker
Posts: 5572
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:29 pm

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by The Silken Knot » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:56 pm

I love you Beansie. Please don't kill me in Mafia.

:smt058

User avatar
Symbiosis
Lux Solicitor
Posts: 910
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:14 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by Symbiosis » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:36 am

Seriously, we play a map where asshattery and intimidation is rewarded just as much as planning ahead and thinking through your moves, and then ban new players when they act accordingly. Why even moderate?

User avatar
Bean
Lux Moderator
Lux Moderator
Posts: 707
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:47 pm

Re: Please clarify reason for ban? (Winning messages)

Post by Bean » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:45 am

Why host a meetup group? Why volunteer anywhere? There are trolls.

My own answer is partly that, well, there are trolls.

Under that is the basic fact that the market doesn't generally provide everything worth having in life and it's a good idea to try and help out. I sometimes feel a little guilty choosing an online game for so much of my time, but it's a cool game. It's better than running for city council. It's better than helping the schools squeeze more money out of the populace with their incessant fundraising. You really can't lose your cool in those contexts very many times, whereas being a Lux moderator comes with a pretty deep pool of forgiveness and social support. :lol:

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests