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Arekusandaa
Lux Newbie
Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 1
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 Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:02 pm Post subject: Request: Massive World Map |
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Firstly, I'm aware of the Global Risk map — I'm requesting something different.
I would love to play on a map in the style of The Dark Ages and Europe Huge, but expanded to a global level. So the map would consist of Europe, Asia, Africa, Oceania and the Americas, with Europe having 100-200 territories, for example, Asia 200-300, etc. One could navigate by drifting horizontally, vertically or diagonally or more quickly by zooming out to a full-map view and then zooming in to individual continents and regions.
I would prefer terrain-based graphics with attention to detail as well as terrain influencing gameplay — eg, a mountainous territory gives a defense bonus and precludes further action by the attacking army for the remainder of the turn. In general, think the Europe, Asia and North America maps from Risk for Playstation 1 composited and taken a step further.
I have seen this idea tossed around a few times, but never materialized. I am aware of its criticisms, but think its enjoyment factor would outweigh its cons for those interested in drawn out and large-scale games.
So, anyone drawn to the challenge of this? |
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n00less cluebie
Lux N00b
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 7154
Location: At the Official Clown Reference Librarian Desk--'All the answers you weren't looking for.'
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Request: Massive World Map |
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| Arekusandaa wrote: | Firstly, I'm aware of the Global Risk map — I'm requesting something different.
I would love to play on a map in the style of The Dark Ages and Europe Huge, but expanded to a global level. So the map would consist of Europe, Asia, Africa, Oceania and the Americas, with Europe having 100-200 territories, for example, Asia 200-300, etc. One could navigate by drifting horizontally, vertically or diagonally or more quickly by zooming out to a full-map view and then zooming in to individual continents and regions.
I would prefer terrain-based graphics with attention to detail as well as terrain influencing gameplay — eg, a mountainous territory gives a defense bonus and precludes further action by the attacking army for the remainder of the turn. In general, think the Europe, Asia and North America maps from Risk for Playstation 1 composited and taken a step further.
I have seen this idea tossed around a few times, but never materialized. I am aware of its criticisms, but think its enjoyment factor would outweigh its cons for those interested in drawn out and large-scale games.
So, anyone drawn to the challenge of this? |
What your proposing goes beyond the limits of creating a Map for Lux, but rather a change in the basic underlying constraints of Lux. You can propose something in the Features request forum, but there'll be no way to have terrain affect gameplay outside of bonus continent armies. It's unlikely that Dustin wants to, pardon my French, fuck with Lux at this point, but who knows?
As for the size? You can already zoom in/out of maps, so there you're just looking at creating large map with lots of countries, and that part SHOULD be feasible (is there a hard-cap on number of countries?) Otherwise your proposal should be feasible that way. |
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paranoiarodeo
Lux Moderator
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 8241
Location: Perched Upon the Eternal Throne of Lobotomia
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Request: Massive World Map |
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| n00less cluebie wrote: | | ... but rather a change in the basic underlying constraints of Lux. You can propose something in the Features request forum, but there'll be no way to have terrain affect gameplay outside of bonus continent armies. It's unlikely that Dustin wants to, pardon my French, fuck with Lux at this point, but who knows? |
"Underlying contraints" isn't the right phrase. "Fundamental nature of the game" would be better. Every couple of months, someone inevitably suggests these sorts of changes: defensive and offensive bonuses based on terrain, conditional movement and fortification rules, etc. Guess what? That's not RISK. Anyone asking for such changes should consider playing Civilization, or any one of many other games designed for a more complex simulation of war. Ultimately, Lux is a RISK clone, and that's not gonna change. As for absurdly large maps, I say the same fundamental criticism applies: the card value and continent income progressions aren't suitable, nevermind the dice mechanics. Furthermore, current Lux AIs aren't tuned for huge maps, and I doubt the underlying API is robust enough to support such bots anyways.
(Arekusandaa would be better off looking elsewhere, rather than trying to shoe horn what he wants into a simple game like Lux.) |
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Rhye
Lux Crooner
Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2081
Location: From Here to Eternity
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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At the end of the day, Lux is beautiful for its simplicity. And as paranoiarodeo said, it just wouldn't be Lux if there were more types of units, terrain bonuses, etc.
If you want a complex simulation game, Civilization 4 BTS + Rise of Mankind: A New Dawn (mod), but otherwise accept that Lux is a "Risk clone." If you just view Lux as a Risk game... you'll see how far it has already pushed the boundaries. Risk games that used to take you and your friends 5 hours in your lousy basement, now take less than 30 minutes with Lux (and you can play more than one game at once.) And now, instead of just challenging your 5 friends from High School you can play against hundreds of players from around the world at any time. Not to mention hundreds of new maps that are available.
When you look at it that way, you'll see that Lux is already an amazing improvement to Risk, but we would like to keep it that way. We want to improve Risk, we don't want to change the fundamentals of the game. |
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kude
omni member
Joined: 14 Aug 2010
Posts: 1760
Location: waiting in line for luxtober §
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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I remember a game like that... I think it may have been Sid Meier's Civilization 2 Gold Edition
(I'm now off to locate my old CD Roms...) |
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Rhye
Lux Crooner
Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2081
Location: From Here to Eternity
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| kude wrote: | I remember a game like that... I think it may have been Sid Meier's Civilization 2 Gold Edition
(I'm now off to locate my old CD Roms...) |
Civilization 2, you're living in the past Kude. Civilization 4 is where it's at.... (but that's beside the point. See my previous post for the best current world simulation Civ game.) |
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Lupus ferox
Creator of Maps
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 652
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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Hey,
It can work, as shown in Extreme Britain. I once tried building such a map (should be in the forums somewhere), but failed due to a technical problem I have with the programs I'm using (pdf conversion from Powerpoint to Elements).
More professional designers (that would be e.g. MB or maybe Behe,  ) would be able to make such a map. It would probably take them several non-stop weeks to make such a map. It really is a huge task...
And then there's the problem with the bots. New ones will have to be developed, because the current bots don't like huge maps (try extreme britain).
But i'm sure it will be very interesting....
I have been thinking of a globe interface. That would be amazing.... |
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paranoiarodeo
Lux Moderator
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 8241
Location: Perched Upon the Eternal Throne of Lobotomia
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Lupus ferox wrote: | | It can work, as shown in Extreme Britain. |
Personally, I think that's a perfect example of it not working.
(Graphically? Sure. Nicely done. But in terms of game mechanics and bots? Nope. Sorry.) |
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n00less cluebie
Lux N00b
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 7154
Location: At the Official Clown Reference Librarian Desk--'All the answers you weren't looking for.'
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| actually, if you're willing to play offline without a timer, it's not bad.... |
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paranoiarodeo
Lux Moderator
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 8241
Location: Perched Upon the Eternal Throne of Lobotomia
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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Does that "without a timer" line work on missus cloobie?
(Three minutes is three minutes, sir.) |
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n00less cluebie
Lux N00b
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 7154
Location: At the Official Clown Reference Librarian Desk--'All the answers you weren't looking for.'
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Hey, I lasted 63 minutes the last time we changed the clocks! |
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kude
omni member
Joined: 14 Aug 2010
Posts: 1760
Location: waiting in line for luxtober §
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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(don't diss the classics, rhye, civ two will always be the best)
silly me, I actually tried extreme Great Britain now... still going strong... round 133... |
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paranoiarodeo
Lux Moderator
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 8241
Location: Perched Upon the Eternal Throne of Lobotomia
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| In all fairness, sixty-three minutes once a year is better than some married couples. |
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luiz zenni
Lux Newbie
Joined: 23 Oct 2011
Posts: 190
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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 Para.! |
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Lupus ferox
Creator of Maps
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 652
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Para,
thanks for telling us your preferences. It's as relevant as all others.... |
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Lupus ferox
Creator of Maps
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 652
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| At least. Since a long time. Something that creates a stir..... |
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paranoiarodeo
Lux Moderator
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 8241
Location: Perched Upon the Eternal Throne of Lobotomia
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Hey LF: Have you seen the community's rating for Extreme Britian recently?
(81 votes. 2.5 outta 5 stars. Ranks 794 outta 906 maps. 12th percentile, sir.) |
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Lupus ferox
Creator of Maps
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 652
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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I like the map, that's good enough
I think some like the map. That's a bonus.
And the bots don't cooperate well....
Last edited by Lupus ferox on Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:05 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Lupus ferox
Creator of Maps
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 652
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| and how did you change 'dude' into 'sir' that quick.... Special moderator skills? |
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kude
omni member
Joined: 14 Aug 2010
Posts: 1760
Location: waiting in line for luxtober §
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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(ah, remember those days when double posts were frowned upon?)
Game ended... reaper got first...I'm gonna go uninstall the map now... |
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Lupus ferox
Creator of Maps
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 652
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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What we have here is an enthusiastic Lux player who is wondering if it is possible to use the flexibility of Lux to create even better, more interesting maps (at least to his liking, and that's what counts).
And what he gets as answer is: no we like it the way it is. Or even: don't be a fool.
That's ludicrous bull shit...
Lux isnt as vibrant as it was before. And we should embrace new ideas and creative new members.
All you do is beating out all new initiatives. For some of the luxers that's excusable, not for moderators.
YES WE CAN, as some american politician has said before..... |
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paranoiarodeo
Lux Moderator
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 8241
Location: Perched Upon the Eternal Throne of Lobotomia
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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What we have here is a first time poster who wants a fundamentally different game than RISK was meant to be — or, in fact, different than Lux will ever become — and one mapmaker who's being needlessly defensive about absurdly huge maps for personal reasons, despite obvious feedback that our community does not want them. You can call it "ludicrous bull shit", but I call it the truth. Are we beating out all new initiatives? Absolutely not. Are we being realistic about Lux's future? Indeed. There are many good ideas for reinvigorating this community, and making it more vibrant than ever before, but this thread of discussion isn't one of them. As for you, Lupus ferox, telling me to "clean up my act", or suggesting that my criticisms are "inexcusable" simply because I am a moderator, then I say you should re-examine your own behavior here, and think twice in the future. As for Arekusandaa's original request for a "massive world map", Lux's mapmakers are free to do as they wish, and perhaps somebody should consider making one. Good luck to anyone who does.
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