Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Game of universal domination. New dice available free upon request.
User avatar
dollabillz
Disinterested Hipster
Posts: 1578
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:34 am
Contact:

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by dollabillz » Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:42 pm

well now i want to play extreme bio chess thanks a lot

User avatar
Shockandawe
Lux Vigilante
Posts: 2180
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:33 am
Location: In orbit around Kerbin.

Re: Old house analogy

Post by Shockandawe » Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:45 pm

Bean wrote:I don't know where the idea comes from, ShockandAwe, that products 12 years old are about to die. The tech world? Some video games? Lux is not analogous to Starcraft. It could be Lux dwindles to zero, but it has seemed like that for years. I was going to say counterexample on Bridge or Poker, but I actually don't know if they are played as much as they used to be, notwithstanding the growth of professional poker. Well, still, for me this game has the potential for diversity in game mechanics and enjoyment that is much better than bridge, poker, or chess. There are enough people here that I like and like to play with. I'd like to see more and I'd like to see folks like you around more to play with, but I'm happy and willing to work on a few things here and there to try and improve things a bit. There isn't going to be a betting pool on the end date. lol.
It's not an idea. It's the reality of the tech/gaming world.

A developer creates a product and supports it for a couple of years. They release updates and new content for their product until they prepare for the release of their next product. They keep their products at least somewhat fresh for maybe a year or two.

Poker itself has gone through massive changes in the last 15 years. While the base concept goes unchanged everything around it has been updated to make it more modern.

Lux hasn't largely changed in it's 12 year history. You could make the argument that the largest addition made to the product was the inclusion of bio, but all tech eventually goes stale.

There is no set end date unless Dustin would decide for there to be one. It is simply something that happens. I knew this was coming a long time ago. It's not anything the community can prevent. Eventually you decide it's time to try something else.

The reason I don't play anymore is that I don't find it engaging. After having played a lot of games over many years I've found myself looking elsewhere for a new experience. A new challenge. Lux became predictable for me. Not in the sense that Lux became easy, but that I knew what to expect from the same players I always found myself playing against. Simply joining a room to chat was more enjoyable than actually playing the game itself.

User avatar
Symbiosis
Lux Solicitor
Posts: 912
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:14 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by Symbiosis » Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:23 am

dollabillz wrote:extreme bio chess
Image

User avatar
Bean
Lux Moderator
Lux Moderator
Posts: 746
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:47 pm

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by Bean » Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:31 pm

lol

User avatar
dustin
Lux Creator
Lux Creator
Posts: 10437
Joined: Thu May 15, 2003 2:01 am
Location: Cascadia
Contact:

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by dustin » Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:17 pm

the main rankings page got a bit of a graphics upgrade today, to align with the new monthly map awards:

http://sillysoft.net/lux/rankings/

User avatar
guillerme
Lux Addict
Posts: 688
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:10 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina.

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by guillerme » Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:09 pm

mnemosyne wrote: maybe we should appoint new mods the same way we vote on luxtoberfest awards: i.e. let the players decide who their leaders should be?
I agree with the idea for people vote for new mods.
Last edited by guillerme on Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: A rule was broken.

User avatar
nimrod7
Clown Prince
Posts: 9685
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:51 pm
Location: Under the big top
Contact:

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by nimrod7 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:17 pm

I think it's a terrible idea to have a popularity contest be the way to choose moderators.

User avatar
guillerme
Lux Addict
Posts: 688
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:10 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina.

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by guillerme » Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:29 pm

No, is good, then all will say I did not vote for him/her...

User avatar
dustin
Lux Creator
Lux Creator
Posts: 10437
Joined: Thu May 15, 2003 2:01 am
Location: Cascadia
Contact:

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by dustin » Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:52 pm

A couple more changes to the raw system:

- MOTM games are now set to have no raw losses. The goal here is to promote people trying out the showcase map. So if you're sitting on a high weekly raw and don't want to risk losing it, please come and play some MOTM games, risk-free!

- Games with 4 or less humans limit losses to 5% of your current raw (previously it was always 10%, which remains the loss limit for 5 or 6 human games).

User avatar
imapickle
is a pickle
Posts: 811
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:21 am
Location: in the jar next to the marmalade

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by imapickle » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:02 pm

Having been listening to a lot of debates recently, I am in debating mood so I will say a few things.

Personally I respect all of the current mod squad and those who have recently resigned, for doing a job that was more difficult and fraught with strife than anyone had any right to expect of them.

There have been a few changes and new features recently, and I actually do not feel they have all been done in an undemocratic way. It is just that the process has been ad hoc. Someone suggests an idea and Dustin says ok we will try that. Then somebody else suggests another idea and a mod tries it etc. Then a mod has an idea and goes ahead with that etc. I do not think this is anything so terrible. If an experiment turns out to be not so good then something else can be tried instead. I think in the end it actually encourages participation if we get away from this idea that everything has to be perfect and micromanaged, and every change has to be something earthshattering. Things do not have to be perfect, it is a game and we are not professional Lux players.

But what might be good is if there was some greater gap between announcing a change and putting it into effect. For example, the above post, which appeared as I am typing this post, came out of the blue for me. Announcing something in advance allows time for everyone to get used to the idea and have their say if they dont like it or think it is a great idea or whatever. Also, sometimes just by pausing you get more clarity about what you are doing and avoid making too many changes or going in lots of different directions at once. So that is my suggestion. Sometimes Lux can feel like we wait ages for changes then 27 come along at once.

Also I think that the mods are in danger of spending too much time and energy responding to and occasionally counterattacking against people who, whatever contributions they may have made in the past, are now only interested in seeing the game fail at any cost. If they think that Sillysoft deserves to fail then fine, that is their opinion. They might be right or they might not, idk. But I think that the mods need to concentrate on the rest of us and not get into constantly baiting or being baited by those people. I understand it is hard because those people can be vocal and attract a lot of attention, but it would make things more constructive round here if it could be done. This business of forum probation and taking peoples hosts off the tracker by Dustin may not be helping here, and I wonder whether it is really dealing with problems or making them worse by antagonising and provoking people. I suggest to decide to either ban someone or not ban them, rather than these in-between measures.

People have said that the mods do not owe Dustin anything. That is true, but I don´t see that as a reason for the mods to all resign, but a reason for the rest of us to accept that we can not expect them to perform wonders for us. I dont think we need some mass mod resigning fest which some people clearly want and are spending their time and energy trying to actively bring about.

User avatar
WhirlPlaid
Lux Skafflaw
Posts: 3871
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:55 pm
Location: Habitual board flippers should have their dice taken away.

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by WhirlPlaid » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:10 pm

Good work

p
i
c
k
l
e.

Thank you.

:smt023

User avatar
dustin
Lux Creator
Lux Creator
Posts: 10437
Joined: Thu May 15, 2003 2:01 am
Location: Cascadia
Contact:

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by dustin » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:32 pm

:dp :dp :dp

User avatar
Shockandawe
Lux Vigilante
Posts: 2180
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:33 am
Location: In orbit around Kerbin.

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by Shockandawe » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:46 pm

imapickle wrote:Having been listening to a lot of debates recently, I am in debating mood so I will say a few things.

Personally I respect all of the current mod squad and those who have recently resigned, for doing a job that was more difficult and fraught with strife than anyone had any right to expect of them.

There have been a few changes and new features recently, and I actually do not feel they have all been done in an undemocratic way. It is just that the process has been ad hoc. Someone suggests an idea and Dustin says ok we will try that. Then somebody else suggests another idea and a mod tries it etc. Then a mod has an idea and goes ahead with that etc. I do not think this is anything so terrible. If an experiment turns out to be not so good then something else can be tried instead. I think in the end it actually encourages participation if we get away from this idea that everything has to be perfect and micromanaged, and every change has to be something earthshattering. Things do not have to be perfect, it is a game and we are not professional Lux players.

But what might be good is if there was some greater gap between announcing a change and putting it into effect. For example, the above post, which appeared as I am typing this post, came out of the blue for me. Announcing something in advance allows time for everyone to get used to the idea and have their say if they dont like it or think it is a great idea or whatever. Also, sometimes just by pausing you get more clarity about what you are doing and avoid making too many changes or going in lots of different directions at once. So that is my suggestion. Sometimes Lux can feel like we wait ages for changes then 27 come along at once.

Also I think that the mods are in danger of spending too much time and energy responding to and occasionally counterattacking against people who, whatever contributions they may have made in the past, are now only interested in seeing the game fail at any cost. If they think that Sillysoft deserves to fail then fine, that is their opinion. They might be right or they might not, idk. But I think that the mods need to concentrate on the rest of us and not get into constantly baiting or being baited by those people. I understand it is hard because those people can be vocal and attract a lot of attention, but it would make things more constructive round here if it could be done. This business of forum probation and taking peoples hosts off the tracker by Dustin may not be helping here, and I wonder whether it is really dealing with problems or making them worse by antagonising and provoking people. I suggest to decide to either ban someone or not ban them, rather than these in-between measures.

People have said that the mods do not owe Dustin anything. That is true, but I don´t see that as a reason for the mods to all resign, but a reason for the rest of us to accept that we can not expect them to perform wonders for us. I dont think we need some mass mod resigning fest which some people clearly want and are spending their time and energy trying to actively bring about.
Sudden changes are how games are managed by most every other company in the business. They may hint at a patch release date or a few of the features within it, but the public largely doesn't know what's changed until that change happens. This is par for the course.

Lux is too far along to ever be considered a failure at this point. To believe that people actually want Lux to fail at this point is a bit ridiculous. There is a disconnect here between negativity and reality. People aren't making complaints and suggestions because they hate Lux. They are making these comments because they have seen Lux gone stale over the course of several years. They are trying to come up with a way to keep things fresh believing that it will bring back players, but the changes that have been suggested over the past few years were never going to accomplish this because they weren't large enough in scale. Yes even para's.

As far as I can gather Dustin is making changes for the community he has right now. I can't actually tell if there is any intent on growing it.

User avatar
WhirlPlaid
Lux Skafflaw
Posts: 3871
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:55 pm
Location: Habitual board flippers should have their dice taken away.

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by WhirlPlaid » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:48 pm

dustin wrote:A couple more changes to the raw system:

- MOTM games are now set to have no raw losses. The goal here is to promote people trying out the showcase map. So if you're sitting on a high weekly raw and don't want to risk losing it, please come and play some MOTM games, risk-free!

- Games with 4 or less humans limit losses to 5% of your current raw (previously it was always 10%, which remains the loss limit for 5 or 6 human games).
If there is no RAW loss in MOTM ... won't that falsely inflate all MOTM players RAW? Theoretically, a player could play MOTM only, never lose RAW and far surpass all other players. Or does the RAW loss (or lack there of) apply only to MOTM leaderboard?

User avatar
paranoiarodeo
Semiholy Tyrant
Posts: 10421
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:30 pm

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by paranoiarodeo » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:11 pm

Image

(No worries 'cause all of dustin's old MOTW RAW bonus tweaks worked just fine.)

User avatar
nimrod7
Clown Prince
Posts: 9685
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:51 pm
Location: Under the big top
Contact:

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by nimrod7 » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:49 am

:smt044

h0b0
Luxer
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:43 pm
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by h0b0 » Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:29 pm

What about a noob room(s), where noobs get extra armies, and more income. Say 5 base instead of 3 or something like that...

Apply limited losses to those rooms like MOTM to encourage veterans to play.

Then the noobs don't get their ass kicked so hard so early and flee...

A crude handicap system if you will.

The we get more players coming back...

User avatar
dollabillz
Disinterested Hipster
Posts: 1578
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:34 am
Contact:

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by dollabillz » Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:04 pm

There aren't enough players in this game to make rankings meaningful anymore. No amount of tinkering with the specifics can make up for that fact.

These conversations are pointless other than that they let Dustin have the appearance of being actively engaged with the remnants of the community.

(the community that was demolished by his mismanagement / inattention)

You guys know this, right?

User avatar
Symbiosis
Lux Solicitor
Posts: 912
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:14 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by Symbiosis » Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:13 am

Image

User avatar
Rhye
Lux Crooner
Posts: 2447
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:42 pm
Location: From Here to Eternity

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by Rhye » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:02 pm

I'm embarrassed to have so much "Imperium RAW" when I never step foot in one of those games...

User avatar
WhirlPlaid
Lux Skafflaw
Posts: 3871
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:55 pm
Location: Habitual board flippers should have their dice taken away.

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by WhirlPlaid » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:11 pm

Nothing to be embarrassed about Rhye. Good on you for kicking ass in good ole REII. Notice that the rankings are for Roman Rulers. Rome 1, Rome 2, and Expletus (I believe). And man, it helped you climb the weekly leaderboard also, 4th on the list currently. KICKASS!

User avatar
The Silken Knot
Lux Tiki Drinker
Posts: 5596
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:29 pm

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by The Silken Knot » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:14 pm

KICK(ing) ASS is exactly what was doing last night. Nice job, Rhyeby!

∞ TSK rubs her sore posterior... ∞

User avatar
Rhye
Lux Crooner
Posts: 2447
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:42 pm
Location: From Here to Eternity

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by Rhye » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:32 pm

The point was to bring attention to this misnomer:

Image


(Jealous of my circle drawing skills?)

User avatar
WhirlPlaid
Lux Skafflaw
Posts: 3871
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:55 pm
Location: Habitual board flippers should have their dice taken away.

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by WhirlPlaid » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:36 pm

Good on you. I am sure dustin will address this.

Now, go climb the leaderboard to number 1!

User avatar
dustin
Lux Creator
Lux Creator
Posts: 10437
Joined: Thu May 15, 2003 2:01 am
Location: Cascadia
Contact:

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by dustin » Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:21 pm

Thanks for the notice, that word has been changed.

Roman Rulers currently counts games on Roman Empire IIb, Imperium Romanum IIb, and Imperium Romanum Expletus.

User avatar
dollabillz
Disinterested Hipster
Posts: 1578
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:34 am
Contact:

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by dollabillz » Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:27 pm

more like roman droolers amirite?

User avatar
Dangerous Beans
oO0-0Oo-oO0-0Oo
Posts: 1125
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:15 pm
Location: SLEEPY (MICRO NATION OF)
Contact:

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by Dangerous Beans » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:56 am

dollabillz wrote:There aren't enough [classic] players in this game to make rankings meaningful anymore.
Fixed.

User avatar
Naraku
Lux Demon
Posts: 1521
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:37 pm

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by Naraku » Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:31 pm

Image

User avatar
Big Will E Style
RAW Dogger
Posts: 2924
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:28 am
Location: Los Angeles, California

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by Big Will E Style » Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:26 am

Dustin - you really need to re-think the MOTM "no raw loss" idea. Why are you punishing people who don't want to play a new map all the time? Your poll shows that some people like new maps every month and some like them sometimes and some don't like them at all. Why not tailor to everyone, provide a slight bump in RAW for winning on these maps, but tone it down.

User avatar
dustin
Lux Creator
Lux Creator
Posts: 10437
Joined: Thu May 15, 2003 2:01 am
Location: Cascadia
Contact:

Re: Raw Rework — Ranking Changes

Post by dustin » Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:27 pm

Based on your feedbacks I have made some more updates to the rankings system:

- raw losses are back for MOTM games, tho they are limited.
- raw losses for bot games have been limited more.
- max raw win for a game has been limited to 100.

Post Reply