Sillysoft Forums

[the tide]

[Odelay]

You have a very good point, when my brother had his tonsils removed the bill came to something like $15 a Popsicle, and they were offering them every 20 min.

Don't doctors get into medicine to make money also? Is med school going to be govement funded as well? or do I drop huge amounts of money to become a good doctor just because I want to contribute to humanity?

[Odelay]

[Shockandawe]

[the tide]

[Odelay]

I don't... where is a copy I can read for my self...

. .... ... .. .. ... ... .... . .. .. .... .. .... ......

Honestly, I have no clue what the new bill is about compared to the last. I have been to busy working and playing video games to worry about what is going to happen if I get sick. I wish I was unemployed again so I had time to worry about what someone else can do for me. On the bright side, some one else can pay for my wrist pain.

I have also neglected to brush my teeth for months or cut my toe nails. I have horrible pains in the right side of my jaw, one molar is cracked in half. Both of my big toe nails are misshaped and growing into my toe from wearing work boots that don't fit, they don't hurt that bad, but when I cut them, they seem to spring out and dig into my toe and cause horrible pain, so I just let them grow.

Also my workplace doesn't have the cash to buy those fancy mats to stand on while you are working in the same spot all day so my heels hurt constantly.

One more thing, I dropped my glasses I payed for out of pocket, and stepped on the frame so I had to kind of bend them back into shape, can I get new ones now?

I hear you over dramatic cry for people getting emergency care...


But what about coverage for me being a dumb ass? Is that covered?


I do lots of stupid things that cause injury, sometimes I think about the consequences... but if I don't have to worry about it... what the hell. I might take up some new hobbies.


Yeah this is not taken seriously, I know. But think about it before you throw it out as BS.

[Enokrad]

H.R.3590 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Bill Home Page)

Table of Contents (with clickable links to passages)

Large PDF version 2.2 MB


what is funny is that even though it's 900 pages,
if it actually covered the full width and height of a page as most documents do,
it would probably be more like 350 pages

[Odelay]

Thanks.

[mbauer]

[Nimrod7]

They mandate everyone must have auto insurance not that everyone must have an auto.

[mbauer]

Mandating everyone have auto insurance (which many States do) is the same as mandating everyone have health insurance.

[Nimrod7]

No. It is not. Everyone does not own a car. Everyone has a body. You have a choice whether or not you want to buy a car. You do not have a choice whether or not you have a body.

[mbauer]

The point is, the government is/has been mandating consumer purchases.

[Shockandawe]

The reason for that is more to protect someone else. Not the person carrying the insurance.

If someone slams into the back of your car and doesn't have insurance you would have a fun time getting the car fixed (I know from experience).

You can hurt someone else by not having auto insurance.

You can't hurt someone else by not having health insurance.

[mbauer]

[Shockandawe]

Name one other thing that the government has forced every single person in this country to purchase.

[Camaro]

what more can be said? we know what Obama and Liberals in general are about, we know they have no repect for this country or its constitution. We know where Obama sat in church and who he listened to and we know there beliefes too. Its time the people take back there country. the only way to put a end to this madness is too stop feeding the beast...time to take our economy underground

[Blind Willie]

For those who are curious, here's one of the better, easy to understand summaries of the bill that I've found:
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/consumer&id=7344779

There's one thing that still doesn't make sense to me. Maybe someone here can explain it. I don't have health insurance because I can't afford it. How does requiring me to buy it change that? Are we assuming that insurance companies will drastically lower their rates when another 300 million new customers show up? Am I going to be relying on government subsidies to pay my insurance bills? Or am I out of luck and out of money?

Also, regarding the auto insurance analogy: driving is a choice and a privilege in a way that simply being alive in the USA is not. Don't want to buy auto insurance? Don't drive. Don't want to buy health insurance under the new rules? Pay a fine.

[Shockandawe]

[Nimrod7]

I was under the impression that there would be some form of rebate depending on your income level. That, or you're put into the Medicaid pool.

[hoodie]

Willie, I need to look at the numbers, but I believe there is a low-cost pool for those who can't afford it, and there are subsidies up to 4x the poverty level (i.e. a family of 4 bringing in $80k) I need to find the actual details, but there should be some sort of relief. It would definitely cost some, but not the full amount.

And Shock, there ARE consequences to not having insurance that affect others. Many many hospital bills go unpaid; I actually have a friend starting a company that directly addresses the fact that hospitals can't ever seem to collect on their bills. That was the $200 aspirin example from above.

So that makes others' bills higher, as they end up paying, and the people who can't pay end up having their credit decimated. Its bad all around.

[Camaro]

forcing people to buy gym memberships would do more for americans health than forcing them to buy obamacare

[Shockandawe]

[hoodie]

first off, something for Camaro to go entertain himself:



OK, now onto an actual conversation: I do agree there are other costs that drive things up, and one of them is too much testing once someone has symptoms, rather than preventive care.

As I mentioned before, there's an anticipation that insurance companies will now have incentive to push people to get preventive care and checkups; they have to make sure the healthy people stay healthy, since they won't be able to drop them once they have to pay out on them.

As for forcing to pull money out of thin air, can you be more specific? Do you mean forcing people to pay, or do you mean the government overspending?

I want to re-iterate, this isn't perfect legislation, not by a long shot. I know I'm playing advocate at this point, offering counter-arguments to points that are brought up often. There are certainly weaknesses, and the biggest one is that people will pay more up front. I truly believe, thinking in a long-term view, that we will be better off for it. That doesn't mean there aren't a lot of holes to patch, but its a step in the right direction.

[Shockandawe]

[Drifter]

[hoodie]

[mbauer]

[Drifter]

I found this intriguing about Social Security:

The Social Security Act was signed by FDR on 8/14/35. Taxes were collected for the first time in January 1937 and the first one-time, lump-sum payments were made that same month. Regular ongoing monthly benefits started in January 1940.

Now for the chart:


If you will notice, the average lifespan was lower than retirement age until +/- 15 years after it started.

People not too long ago weren't relying on the government for their retirement, they took care of it themselves (if they were ever able to retire). Now some folks do not save money and expect SS to take them thru the golden years.

What happened to self reliance? Is it cause we are just giving the fish away, and folks are forgetting how to fish?

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Maybe Dingell is just an old guy misspeaking, but I have heard a ton of misspeaking here lately by multiple people. The dots are not connecting comfortably for me.

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Mb, you do not have to own a car. You can take a bus/train/plane/bike/reebok express and not have to pay for insurance. If you do own a car, the minimum you have to have is liability, which covers someone when you bang up their ride (thus protecting the hittie from the hitter). If you want full coverage to cover your own ride, that is your choice. But the gov't has never flexed the power of mandating consumer purchases for just having a pulse.

[the tide]