Boycott Bio!!!

Game of universal domination. New dice available free upon request.

Do you intend to start boycotting bio?

Poll ended at Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:57 pm

1 - Yes, Bio is a fun map with good players, but currently not much fun for me.
4
29%
2 - No!!! I ♥ BIO!!!! pry it from my cold dead mouse!
2
14%
3 - Yes, bio is an awful map no matter who is playing it.
1
7%
4 - No Bio is A ok as it is!!!
5
36%
5 - I have already embraced this fantastic idea & have already been boycotting bio before these hipsters showed up!!!
2
14%
 
Total votes: 14

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kitty on catnip
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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by kitty on catnip » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:40 pm

Shockandawe wrote:It's hard to convince someone to care about the emotions of text on a screen. Literally all anyone here is.
Let me guess. If you had a 6 year old daughter and she said 'Daddy, I love you"

You would look her dead in the eye and tell her.

"Your just a lump of space stuff that randomly evolved into 80% water with an atomic organization that resembles parts of your mother and your father. The words you speak are just vibrations through sound waves to trigger responses from my ear and my pre frontal cortex. I cannot love you nor can I care about you because you are just atoms and I cannot care about randomly organized molecules."

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Shockandawe
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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by Shockandawe » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:49 pm

kitty on catnip wrote:
Shockandawe wrote:It's hard to convince someone to care about the emotions of text on a screen. Literally all anyone here is.
Let me guess. If you had a 6 year old daughter and she said 'Daddy, I love you"

You would look her dead in the eye and tell her.

"Your just a lump of space stuff that randomly evolved into 80% water with an atomic organization that resembles parts of your mother and your father. The words you speak are just vibrations through sound waves to trigger responses from my ear and my pre frontal cortex. I cannot love you nor can I care about you because you are just atoms and I cannot care about randomly organized molecules."
That is entirely different. Seeing someone face to face. Far more is communicated and thus it is a far more personal means of communication than the internet can be.

This is disconnected. This isn't personal. People do not communicate or interact the same way in person that they do on the internet. There is a substantial difference.

Anonymity greatly changes people and how they interact.

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hoodie
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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by hoodie » Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:28 pm

Here's another exercise: how would you talk to your car that I stole vs your girlfriend that I stole? :smt044

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kitty on catnip
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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by kitty on catnip » Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:47 pm

hoodie wrote:Here's another exercise: how would you talk to your car that I stole vs your girlfriend that I stole? :smt044
Well when you bring them to back in one piece (preferably the car), then I can talk to them and see what happens. :D

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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by Dangerous Beans » Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:30 pm

kitty on catnip wrote:
Let me guess. If you had a 6 year old daughter and she said 'Daddy, I love you"

You would look her dead in the eye and tell her.

"Your just a lump of space stuff that randomly evolved into 80% water with an atomic organization that resembles parts of your mother and your father. The words you speak are just vibrations through sound waves to trigger responses from my ear and my pre frontal cortex. I cannot love you nor can I care about you because you are just atoms and I cannot care about randomly organized molecules."
:smt044

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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by guillerme » Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:31 pm

I do not like how sounds Boycott bio.

Bio is like a club for many players, or as a bar, the players go there and play because it is a map that they know and like that, they feel comfortable.

I would like those who are the true leaders in bio, help me in the pacification and try to get back the old school in terms of courtesy.

We should have fun and help new players in understanding the strategy, and as for the bad apples, we will warn them, because their bad behavior is not desired for an online game. And they should change.

Bio need a bridge not a wall.

Have respect with all players, even though you're in a room or in a discussion that is not to your liking, have respect among you, I think with that, I say everything. And love.

:smt109

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George874
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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by George874 » Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:10 pm

YESSSSSSSS............

Look at Guillerme's Avatar,,,,,,,,,,,

IT SAYS LOVE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by n00less cluebie » Mon May 09, 2016 8:51 am

I think this is probably locking the doors after the horses have escaped.

Bio is probably a big reason why we never saw a big influx of players from the Steam and Humble bundle sales, and not even because of the reasons listed above.

I think back to the first time I went online with Lux: I didn't jump into Part Deux because it was such a strange concept to someone who had only played the classic map: three country continents?! Now imagine how disorienting Bio must be to the first time Luxxer who is only familiar with Risk. "da fuq happened to the map?" "why is he upset I took China? He didn't have all of Asia!" "Holy crap, how did he get so many armies from holding only Russia?!" And "Did he just move ALL of his armies after he killed X?" Enough to scare away most first-timers

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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by GFips » Mon May 09, 2016 10:13 am

n00less cluebie wrote:Bio is probably a big reason why we never saw a big influx of players from the Steam and Humble bundle sales, and not even because of the reasons listed above.
I agree. But what to do to get classic FH games?
If only a pat of the people, who complain about Bio would go playing the classic map, we would easily have FH games.
Maybe to put some raw bonus on the classic map? Maybe promote some classic games on some fixed days (e.g. lets say we meet to pay classic each wednessday?). I have no solution. Like most of you i would like to play more classic maps, but usually the classic room is empty ... so finally it results in ending in a bio FH game ...

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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by Shockandawe » Mon May 09, 2016 10:17 am

You would have to convince them that Classic isn't slow and repetitive.

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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by n00less cluebie » Mon May 09, 2016 11:12 am

If I had the time to sit an hour in an empty classic room waiting for others to join and then another hour for the chance for it to fill up for a full house I would. Even on the "award night" for castles when people joined the classic room, we managed a total of *one* full-house classic game over four hours. But like I said were probably past the last chance for an influx of new players after the Steam and HumbleBumble releases.

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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by Samuel99is back » Mon May 09, 2016 3:16 pm

Its just silly that WE always go in the BIO room and complain that nobody is playing classic.........At this time theres 13players in 1 BIO room??????Easily if the players who wants to boycott BIO or dont like BIO would go play classic there could be a FH going on....... :smt017 :smt017 :smt017

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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by crazyjeff » Tue May 10, 2016 1:23 pm

no way what will I do haow will I see all my friends love this game

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Centrico
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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by Centrico » Wed May 18, 2016 12:10 am

Here's a thought...

Instead of trying to mute the obvious choice/votes by everyone that plays bio, as clearly there actions speak louder than words...

Why not let people play what they want and just create a trainer mode algorithm. It would be quite simple:

(IF [LARGEST ATTACK POTENTIAL] > [TOTAL ENEMY RESERVES]) AND (IF [TOTAL RESERVES] + [CARD CASH] * [INCOME VARIABLE***] > [TOTAL ENEMY RESERVES]* 1.1)

THEN [SHOW KILL, KILL, KILL]


***WHERE INCOME VARIABLE IS IN PROPORTION TO ENEMY INCOME THREAT VS PLAYER INCOME POTENTIAL

Example my income is 10 enemy income is 12, the variable threat is 1.2 so...
IF (My total reserves + 2 cashes totaling 20) * 1.2 = 40
AND (Total enemy reserves * 1.1 ( additional 10% buffer to allow for these wonderfully sucky dice) = 44
THEN Kill would be discouraged.

This is simple and could likely use improvement, but this could create an option that can be enabled by a room host and enforced accrdingly, avoiding the need for moderating in some occasions.

Basically, use a simple AI to help noobs know if the path they are pursuing is wise or not... you could even use a dialog box that says "are you sure?" Even better, repeat offenders could have this force enabled by mods, that would trim the griefing, suiciding, assplay without losing players.

It would be a cheat of sorts that lights up yummy targets and discourages attacking hopeless ones.

Just my 2cents

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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by Symbiosis » Wed May 18, 2016 7:16 am

Why isn't it a girlcott? Huh??? MISOGYNY MUCH????

The math of the game is broken in ways described probably hundreds of times in these forums. paranoiarodeo fixed it about 18 months ago. There are underlying issues* which make asshatting, intimidation, and/or turtling from round 4 optimal strategies in bio, and the game will always always always suck until those issue are addressed. And folks I'm sorry to say it, but they will never be addressed. Maybe we can just turn this forum into a forum games club so we can all keep in touch.

--------------

*There is also the fact that bio'd countries take away natural paths for hitting and killing which also slows down games, which is also a perfectly valid criticism, and which also been discussed before numerous times.

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n00less cluebie
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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by n00less cluebie » Wed May 18, 2016 8:49 am

Centrico wrote:Here's a thought...

Instead of trying to mute the obvious choice/votes by everyone that plays bio, as clearly there actions speak louder than words...

Why not let people play what they want and just create a trainer mode algorithm. It would be quite simple:

(IF [LARGEST ATTACK POTENTIAL] > [TOTAL ENEMY RESERVES]) AND (IF [TOTAL RESERVES] + [CARD CASH] * [INCOME VARIABLE***] > [TOTAL ENEMY RESERVES]* 1.1)

THEN [SHOW KILL, KILL, KILL]


***WHERE INCOME VARIABLE IS IN PROPORTION TO ENEMY INCOME THREAT VS PLAYER INCOME POTENTIAL

Example my income is 10 enemy income is 12, the variable threat is 1.2 so...
IF (My total reserves + 2 cashes totaling 20) * 1.2 = 40
AND (Total enemy reserves * 1.1 ( additional 10% buffer to allow for these wonderfully sucky dice) = 44
THEN Kill would be discouraged.

This is simple and could likely use improvement, but this could create an option that can be enabled by a room host and enforced accrdingly, avoiding the need for moderating in some occasions.

Basically, use a simple AI to help noobs know if the path they are pursuing is wise or not... you could even use a dialog box that says "are you sure?" Even better, repeat offenders could have this force enabled by mods, that would trim the griefing, suiciding, assplay without losing players.

It would be a cheat of sorts that lights up yummy targets and discourages attacking hopeless ones.

Just my 2cents
Great idea in theory! Unfortunately, I don't think the guts of Lux will allow you access to the data you need to assess the board properly and your "Show Kill" command would require a major amount of change to the backend that I tend to doubt Dustin is inclined to pursue.....

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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by Shockandawe » Wed May 18, 2016 1:24 pm

Symbiosis wrote:Why isn't it a girlcott? Huh??? MISOGYNY MUCH????

The math of the game is broken in ways described probably hundreds of times in these forums. paranoiarodeo fixed it about 18 months ago. There are underlying issues* which make asshatting, intimidation, and/or turtling from round 4 optimal strategies in bio, and the game will always always always suck until those issue are addressed. And folks I'm sorry to say it, but they will never be addressed. Maybe we can just turn this forum into a forum games club so we can all keep in touch.

--------------

*There is also the fact that bio'd countries take away natural paths for hitting and killing which also slows down games, which is also a perfectly valid criticism, and which also been discussed before numerous times.
Except that making Bio a mathematically balanced map turns it into Classic.

The vast majority of players are willing to excepts Bio's flaws for what it offers.

If you want to see just how balanced the Classic map is try a fullhouse game with Bio removing only a single country every game. Simply removing that one country is enough to end up with the majority being marathons.

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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by The Silken Knot » Wed May 18, 2016 2:42 pm

∞ TSK girlcotts Symbiosis every day of the week, and twice on Wednesdays ∞

:smt049

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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by n00less cluebie » Wed May 18, 2016 5:03 pm

Does TSK make Girlcotts cookies?

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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by Baden » Thu May 19, 2016 10:52 am

Yesterday we had fun with full house Classic games (fast setting, 5, 10, 15) . The longest game did last 9 rounds and 13 minutes. The shortest 6 rounds and 9 minutes. I think every game that lasts more than 20 minutes or even stalemates during hours are a waste of time.

TSK was also there and enjoyed it.

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The Silken Knot
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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by The Silken Knot » Thu May 19, 2016 9:30 pm

∞ TSK did! ∞

:smt054

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Samuel99is back
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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by Samuel99is back » Wed May 25, 2016 10:40 pm

What I think about BIO is that some players are complitely oblivious about how to play this game.Not noob,but players who have players hundred,thousand and even more then 10000 games still dont know how to make easy kills.......its more easier to win on BIO compare to classic or Rome ,its why players play it.......

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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by dustin » Thu May 26, 2016 1:56 pm

If you feel like actually boycotting bio, come join me in the Classic room today

:globe

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Bean
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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by Bean » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:28 pm

I revisit this 3.4 years later. I think it's not the map or the asshats, but the one-map mindset. I saw it in IRE and of course who hasn't seen it in bio.

The something that hasn't been tried is now being tried.

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Bean
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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by Bean » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:50 pm

I agree with old Q. Seems he really really changed his mind. Ah well. We love what we love.

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Naraku
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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by Naraku » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:49 am

Bean does Boycott mean that it's ok for Management, General store (or w/e analogy you want to use) to nuke the entire store just get that 1 new product on the shelf?
@ a time when lux has a very reduced player pool, rather than try to retain & attract new players you just poop on all the old ones that LOVE the store or map for what it is & the way it is or was... Then force them to play in hosts that they are not interested in trying or exploring.

I said Boycott Bio because the players 3-4 years ago there were very toxic & the mods really didn't care to enforce rules then or show up to moderate, just to ban when more than 2 players complain about player X. I have always enjoyed other maps, It's why I loved playing the MotW. If you read real carefully you'll also see that nowhere did I say "STOP hosting bio forever & F all the old luxtopians who actually ENJOYED playing there."

Screw the MotW's absurd bonus, host CLASSIC, IRE, RE2, MOTW, Deux(no bio) & Bio deux extreme with a Unified rankings system & you might start to get more than 21 games in a day... or more than 2400 in a month...
Bean wrote: "I revisit this 3.4 years later. I think it's not the map or the asshats, but the one-map mindset. I saw it in IRE and of course who hasn't seen it in bio.

The something that hasn't been tried is now being tried."
Congrats on becoming a lux forum necromancer; what with all your raising of dead threads.

The problem isn't the cliques of luxtopia or the multiple communities that once existed, the problem is that players are now being forced to play on the 3 Maps of the week or deal with w/e clever tweak dustin or you make to the once established ranking systems with & without their flaws or merits. Without much notice or explanation to luxtopians old & new. I loved that luxtopia once had MULTIPLE FH hosts of varied maps at almost any time of the day or night. Now in this ghosttown you're super lucky to get a FH.
Bean wrote: I agree with old Q. Seems he really really changed his mind. Ah well. We love what we love."
My goal wasn't to end bio forever or alter luxtopia, my goal then was to bring back MotW or Re2 or any fun hosts like the Winner's Pick (<------- Which is sorely missed by many old skool luxers)

You might love kiwi's & Bacon but the next person might hate them, they shouldn't be forced to eat a kiwibacon sundae because it's what you think is the best or what YOU enjoy consuming or doing with your time.
Symbiosis wrote: Allowing toxic users to dictate the culture of your app is just one way to let the thing fall apart... not the only way lux fell apart but an important one.


Apathy, Toxic players & now unstable changes to once established systems of luxtopia are what have brought lux this low. Goodluck digging it out of the very very deep ditch it's in now...
Last edited by Naraku on Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Bean
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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by Bean » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:36 am

Wow. still very angry. interesting points, Q. And yes, I think a store can take all the products off the shelf and offer an entirely new set or whatever else they like. I think owners of stores that are not generating much action tend to change things up. And they don't tend to survive if they don't.

I think it's very possible that this store just closes. I hope not, but we seem to be in the mode of just continuing to sell the same ole' same ole' to a declining customer base until it's over. A real store might do it quicker because there is real estate to consider and, you know, you can sell or rent real property to another store.

Now that you have explained the boycott bio post, I think I still agree with you there. A lot of the worst are gone now. Hard to be contemptuous of folks like RB, Gyps, and Landlord. Sad to be in such opposition too, but can't make up agreement where none exists. I wonder at what level of participation you would start to agree with me on changing things up. Does it have to die all the way back to 3 people? 0? Does there have to be a name change?

Thanks for coming back to discuss. We miss you.

Cheers

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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by Naraku » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:08 pm

1 - Yes, Bio is a fun map with good players, but currently not much fun for me. 4 votes - 29%
2 - No!!! I ♥ BIO!!!! pry it from my cold dead mouse! 2 votes - 14%
3 - Yes, bio is an awful map no matter who is playing it. 1 vote - 7%
4 - No Bio is A ok as it is!!! 5 votes - 36%
5 - I have already embraced this fantastic idea & have already been boycotting bio before these hipsters showed up!!! 2 votes -14%


At the time 79% of luxers liked or loved bio enough to WANT to play there & I know this is a foreign thought for you bean but some players LOVED playing in the bio hosts. Very Angry? How by posting stats, facts & inconvenient truths? Yes how awfully angry of me.... :roll:

Yes well someone in the upper management went out of their way to slowly but surely kill off the MotW & Re2 maps & communities, & now no more IRE hosts? The previous popular maps of lux weren't because of the store forcing them to play there. It was player demand or players hosting new maps, hosts or concepts (ie color collusions) Change is the only constant in life & the universe so I'm not against change I'm against forcing players to play certain rankings or maps that they might not want to play on. Change the name? why? Lux is fine & was a lot of fun when we had a diverse, various & chaotic community. you know more than the current 20 or so "Active" players it has been allowed to dwindle down to.

You could always start your own threads with polls to gauge the communities desires or thirst for change & the speed of such a transformation. Many of the rankings ladders were handed down from on high with 0 input from the community, or were sneaky changes to the chase like the time it starts; only allowing highest ranked hosts on weekends for some utterly bizarre arcane reason. Not resetting the week properly or hosts randomly crashing with no explanation.

Will there be any updates to lux in the near future? like maybe freeing the cycle to 5 instead of just 3? Boot all the losers! :lol:

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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by Bean » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:48 pm

oh, totally sorry. I haven't talked to you in a long time and forgot how I always think you are angry and then aren't. lol. I sort of want to meet you in person to see if the same thing happens.

I think of communities as having common ground more important than differences. It's in the area of ethics I guess. Without it you have politics. Everyone doing politics hopes to switch to ethics. Sometimes we do. I like the idea of Lux as one or more communities, but I also have a hard time with the idea of forcing a business to keep playing its losing hand. Yes, I know any opponent of mine will want to take short term view and ignore the decline that came long before I had any influence on anything. I also know the civil wars and the para departure caused some of the decline.

But however we got here, I think it got small enough to say we no longer have much here and it's time to organize and get improve, maybe try some new marketing thing. I don't the idea of curating maps each week and rotating around within the set of great maps lux has to offer is so offensive. Some clearly are offended even though of course, Nara, I will have to defer to whatever you say directly about your emotions since I'm so bad at reading them. Do we have to wait until there are only 5 or only 2 or what? I am curious and plan to be here until 0 i suppose. I play bio with some folks. Some few of the bio folk play things with me on occasion.

Maybe the bio crowd is on the verge of turning it around with the one-map-to-rule-them all strategy. However, it is often a toxic room, as is ire, and I think that's what other mods see when they were deciding on their votes here. a. Not possible to moderate it; you just get irate opposition and righteous abuse and complaining. b. Not really reasonable to invite anyone into the game to join us in my mind, at least if I care about them. I am not going to rehash all the evidence here, just use your own memory. My son is a good age. We do things together. We dance. We mountain bike. We play D&D. We might play a little Lux, but not online at this stage in our little "community."

Maybe chat free is the way. But then that's "community free" too isn't it?

I'm glad you are here Naraku.

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Re: Boycott Bio!!!

Post by Dangerous Beans » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:02 am

Somehow you were able to bump up an old thread about the pros/cons of the Biosphere and turn it into your perceptions on Naraku's pysche and a personal resume about you and your son's bonding time, professional level of derailing.

:hmm: :pop

also- is anyone else annoyed that you have to click on 'view full preview and editor' in order to use smileys?

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